Any ideas??

[dbjay417]

About 1/4 of my property is dry, rock hard ground. The numerous ancient avacado and mango trees make it so.

There are open plots of land between trees that are unusable because the ground is solid, dry, and shaded.

Inquisitive ol me with all my free time started a project to attempt to grow on these plots of land. How?

irrigation.

I took a small piece of land and dug a main vein and five canals comming off of it. All the mud i dug up went into the areas between each canal. i have to haul some soil from elsewhere in the yard to fill in the rest, I want the areas between the canals about 1ft above the bottom of the canals.

I'm positive i can grow sucessfully here.

The only problem i encountered is a pretty big one. There aint a whole lot of direct sunlight hitting that spot.

So i need a crop whose roots wont need more than a vertical foot to expand and that can thrive in the shade. Any recommendations?

 

[patandchickens]

Sorry, my knowledge of tropical or subtropical shade crops is nil. In the temperate zone the only things that will grow in substantial shade are leaf crops (lettuce, chard, mint, etc) though. And even they need *some* sun.

OTOH... I apologize if you're already aware of it but in case you're not, have you looked into information on tropical permaculture? I read a permaculture book (the only one I've read, in fact, probably titled "Permaculture" ), probably by Bill Mollison, which being aimed largely at the 'layering' of crops in warm-climate systems probably had exactly the info you're looking for, and more. (Lots of very detailed examples from Australia, etc). I am positive he suggests specific shade-tolerant things to complement fruit trees, just don't recall what.

(There is (imho) a whole lot of polysyllabic overcomplicated mumbo jumbo associated with the whole permaculture concept, BUT if you grit your teeth and concentrate on what is really being said, a lot of it is massively sensible and a trove of good ideas to try out. There are websites and stuff, but look for the Mollison book as well in libraries or on ebay (I will try to get the title etc for you next time I am at the library))

If you are already familiar with all this, then never mind

Pat

 

[dbjay417]

i have no idea what permaculture is. but i will in a minute!! I'm off to wikipedia!!

 

[digitS']

(There is (imho) a whole lot of polysyllabic overcomplicated mumbo jumbo associated with the whole permaculture concept, BUT if you grit your teeth and concentrate . . .

I have a hard time gritting my teeth hard enuf, Pat.

Leafy veggies in the shade - how 'bout the onion family? Even the bulb types are essentially leafy vegetables.

Shallow-rooted but they seriously appreciate a fertile soil. Even in the shade, however, you can't leave onions too high and dry.

Steve

 

[citygirlinthecountry]

Have you considered sheep or goat farming?

 

[patandchickens]

Ok, I checked that book out of the library:

Permaculture, by Bill Mollison (1990: Island Press, Wash.DC, ISBN 1-55963-048-5)

Despite Steve's comments, and I entirely agree you have to grit your teeth a LOT with these permaculture folks , there really IS a tremendous number of interesting ideas in the book. Mixed in are some rather half-assed ideas, and it's up to you to sort them out <g>, but I highly recommend it. In addition to being good character-building exercise not to go Phhthththttt at all the self-important mumbo jumbo and overcomplication of the obvious , there are a lot of actual good ideas you will not see elsewhere. A couple random ones that I have found personally useful: not planting things in long straight rows where wind stress is a problem (plant in zigzags or in 'crosshatched' patterns - long straight rows are only an advantage if you're using a tractor, or horse-plowing a large area!), and intentionally structuring plants etc to form sun traps to speed early spring gardening.

Unfortunately, tho I have only had time to quick riffle thru the book today, it may actually *not* have as much info on tropical full-shade understory crops as I had thought. (But, I will look harder tomorrow).

The best I can do for you is his suggestions of ginger (shade-tolerant and shallow rooted, but needing considerable nutrients), coffee, cacao, and taro (which may not be suitable for your soil and water availability). There are doubtless others though, esp. herb type things.

I dunno whether this will help but here is a brief webpage dealing sorta with the subject: www.agroforestry.net/overstory/overstory11.html+shade-tolerant+crops+tropical&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=10&gl=ca

I wonder whether the shaded areas under the trees mightn't actually best be utilized as chicken habitat? The chickens would presumably like the shade and coolth, and if there's enough area you could grow stuff *for the chickens* in the shaded area, and maybe get better chicken-and/or-egg production than you could if they were elsewhere. Dunno, just a thought.

Good luck,

Pat

 

[dbjay417]

yeah. The problem is there is so much of this type of land. 1/3 of my property is about 5,000sq m. Its not HUGE, but its sizable. The chicken habitat is in a small section of this land further from the house.

After more excavation I have found that about 6 inches under the extremely hard topsoil, there is clay. After removing the topsoil and exposing the clay, the water fed into the ditches from my garden hose, pools in the ditches for 5-6 hours before leaving pastey mud.

I dunno if clay changes anything but i figured i'd toss in the new development. That culantro i mentioned is actually thriving in a small patch of land very similar to the one in question. i was thinking if this plant can survive, in rock hard, shaded, unfertilized earth, than with some TLC i could probably make onions or lettuce work. I'm just gonna give onions a shot and see how it goes.