Depletion of the Soil?

[GardenGeisha]

Can anyone recommend some good articles online about how modern farming methods (using pesticides and heavy fertilizer applications) deplete the soil of nutrients? I'm especially interested in H, D 24 (herbicide) and how it impacts the soil, etc.

I tried to garden in an area farmers had farmed last year, and it was a nightmare. I'm organic. And then I learned they'd used this H, D 24 stuff and wonder if that's why it took my sunflower seeds 5 weeks to germinate and I had such low germination rates of seeds, etc. My transplants stunted. Watermelons, pumpkins, cantaloupes, and strawberries all stunted and then turned to dust and blew away. Only radishes, peas, and lettuce did well.

And the stuff I grew in hot horse manure did well, too.

 

[GardenGeisha]

The herbicide in question is 2,4-D, not H, D 24 as I incorrectly stated.

 

[so lucky]

2,4 D shouldn't have caused the poor germination, I don't think. Maybe they also used Treflan or some other type seed germination preventer. Although those things usually have a life of about 90 days. Corn gluten is known as a germination supressant. Did they grow corn in the field?

 

[GardenGeisha]

Yes, they did grow corn in the field last year and it was very puny. They didn't plant it until late in June, because it was wet late here. But the corn wasn't planted in the same area as where I planted this spring.

The dodder has all disappeared. I asked whether they used a weed killer on it, and they said no, but I do wonder. My plot is near where the dodder was. I did empty the kitty litter on top of the dodder. I suppose that could have killed the dodder, suffocating it? But it is pretty far from my patch, too.

I planted tons of zinnia seeds and okra and other things but only the seeds nearest the heavy irrigation germinated. And the giant sunflowers had plenty of water but only one out of a whole packet of seeds germinated. The corn I planted had plenty of water but only about a third or less of the seeds (brand new) germinated. Very weird. And it took the corn 5 weeks, at least, to germinate.

 

[hoodat]

Any soil will eventually run down if planted intensively. Trace minerals are especially liable to become scarce. You can recycle everything as compost but something has to be brought in from outside the system now and then or that will happen. Remember that plants no doubt use trace minerals that plant experts don't even know are necessary. Not everything about plants is know to science. Kelp is especially good at bringing in trace minerals since every element on Earth is found in sea water.
The Permies site has a lot of cached material. You may find your answers there. The site is at:
http://www.permies.com/forums/

 

[GardenGeisha]

Thanks, Hoodat. It seems it took just one year for the depletion. Last year I planted in the middle of the field and everything grew so well. But this year is a different story. Their crops, however, seem just fine, but I notice they fertilize heavily and use the herbicide, which I don't. I wonder whether that herbicide drove all the bugs to my end of the field and that's why none of the seeds came up? They were eaten?

 

[journey11]

The things you list that had the most trouble are heavy feeders. What soil type are you dealing with? Strawberries in particular really need a sandy loam to do best. The saying goes: feed the soil, feed the plant. Monoculture tends to rely heavily on chemical fertilizers, which are like candy, providing a temporary boost (and also feeding the weeds, therefore the herbicide). Soil farmed that way tends to be effectively dead, lacking beneficial bacteria and organisms. Dig up a deep shovelful and note if you find any worms? It will take a couple of seasons of adding in organic matter and cover cropping in the off-season to get that soil back up to where it should be.

 

[ducks4you]

You need to amend you soil. I would start with grass clippings from mowing--avoid grass that has already gone to seed, or you'll be weeding those out of your garden. If you have a bag mower, you can pile it up and work it in after the garden's done this year. You can work in any pruning, even weeds that you pull--avoid thistles, burdock and anything else with thorns, like rose bush prunings--I would burn those, then add them to your garden.
Call local stables. Some have to pay to have stall cleanings removed. EVERYBODY buys grain with plastic bags--50 lbs size--and, if you take a roll of duct tape with you and a small shovel, you could get the bags for free (from their trash cans) and fill the bags with manure and stuff and create great compost. (The bags usually have sweet feed mixed with molasses, and they smell great.) Horse manure takes 4 months to degrade and it will NOT burn out next year's crops.
If you want to pile and add it earlier, buy some red worms. They are helpful to decompose kitchen waste in inside bins, but they work outside, too.
Here are few articles on composting that I think will help.
http://www.organicgardening.com/learn-and-grow/5-steps-fast-compost
http://www.organicgardening.com/learn-and-grow/cold-weather-compost
Here is another forum's post I found and copied that is interesting, too.
Posted by luckygal 3 (My Page) on
Sat, May 17, 08 at 0:09
... We live in zone 3 in the Great White North so have never been concerned with whether my compost ever heats to any significant amount. While it's actually a fairly decent climate (if one doesn't mind winter) we can get frost any month of the year. Not a usual occurrence but it can happen. So come early summer if the stuff at the bottom of the compost bin resembles dark soil, I'm happy and mix it with mulch for top-dressing. The non-decomposed stuff is buried between plants or in rows at the back of a bed. We often in the summer do not use the compost bin but just bury each day's accumulation of goodies between plants. I know some people think this is not the way to compost "properly" but it seems to work. We have gazillions of earthworms and everything seems to decompose by the end of the summer. Occasionally we have had a bear mess about with the compost bin when we use it during the summer and we prefer not to feed Bruin. I'm always amazed at all the hoopla about making compost so wonder what I'm missing. Isn't the entire point to cause decomposition of veggie waste material so it enriches the garden soil? I also wonder about worm bins as I consider my entire garden a worm bin. DH rearranged some garden stepping stones the other day and found many worm "nurseries". They must be happy to be reproducing so well. I have wondered if by complicating the composting process some people may be turned off it.
more...

 

[ducks4you]

Here is another article, but I lost the link to credit.
6 Basic Rules of Compost Gardening
As a compost gardener, you will do much more than simply make compost. This book is a composting manual, But we take things further by presenting time-saving composting techniques that create new growing space, solve site problems, host beneficial insects, and invigorate soil during every season of the year. These techniques are covered in detail in part 2 (see page 130), and they have in common close adherence to the 6 Basic Rules of Compost Gardening listed here. While Following these guidelines, you will no doubt invent even more ways to create compost in your yard and garden. As you do, keep in mind that the whole point of compost gardening is to put the natural decomposition processes first. From there on, everything else easily falls into place.
1 CHOOSE LABOR-SAVING SITES.
Keep your garden and compost as close to one another as possible. Compost in your garden whenever you can, or at least nearby. There is a catch, because while most garden plants grow best with plenty of sun, compost piles retain moisture best when situated in shade. Address this dilemma by using in-garden composting methods at every opportunity, and water as needed to keep the pile barely moist. Locate slow-rotting heaps in a shady sport near your garden and site new garden beds close to your best area for making compost.

2 WORK WITH WHAT YOU HAVE
Compost what your yard produces first, and import materials only when they are convenient and of special value to your composting projects. Instead of yearning for materials you've heard make great compost, concentrate on doing the best job you can with compostable materials that you generate at home. Most landscapes produce plenty of fallen leaves, grass clippings, and withered plants; and kitchen spew out a steady supply of compostable riches (see page 56). When you do want to bring in outside materials, start looking for them ablong the curbs in your neighborhood, and stick with other sources close to home. in addition to be convenient and efficient, using local materials takes a bite out of local waste disposal costs and saves you unnecessary compost miles (see page 53).

3 HELP DECOMPOSTERS DO THEIR JOBS
Compost happens thanks to the efforts of a vast population of organisms--from earthworms and pill bugs to microscopic fungi and bacteria--that live in, feed on, and otherwise process organic matter into nourishment for soil and plants. Creating optimal conditions for these essential composting critters is the key to your compost-making success. Keep them working by balancing compost ingredients between "greens" and "brown" (see page 54), adding high-nitrogen meals when needed (see page 122), and keeping compost materials moist. Additionally, you can aerate compost piles by turning them to stimulate microbial activity.

4 REUSE AND RECYCLE
Reuse items from your recycling bin in your composting projects. Store finished compost in (well-rinsed) bulk containers, such as five-gallon plastic pickle buckets and detergent jugs. Turn cardboard boxes into bedding for you vermicompost bin. Place a thick layer of newspapers at the base of a curing compost pile to deter invasive tree roots. Look for novel opportunities to use compost-garden methods to shrink the waste stream generated by your household' day-to-day activities.

5 THE MAGIC IS IN THE MIX
Decomposed leaves are called leaf mold, and rotted manure is...rotted manure. Both leaf mold and rotted manure have special uses, but they lack the diverse community of beneficial microorganisms found in true compost, which is made from a wide variety of materials. Each organic ingredient you put into a compost project--from carrot peelings to dead pepper plants--will host a slightly different groups of microorganisms, and it is this diversity that makes compost greater than the sun of its parts.

6 COMPOST TO SUIT YOUR GARDEN'S NEEDS
Treat every plant your grow to some form of compost. Blanket beds as you renovate them between plantings, amend planting holes, or mix your best batches into homemade potting soil. Use rough-textured, partially decomposed compost as mulch, and sprinkle vermicompost into containers of flowers or houseplants. Match compost-garden methods to the situations you encounter most often in your gardens, and always put soil care first and plants second.
-----------------------------------
MAKE A COMPOSTER'S SLING
In less than 10 minutes, and for less than $10 you can m make this versatile composter's sling. Use it to collect and move shredded leaves, Grass clippings, and even the weeds you pull from your garden. When excavating a garden bed, place the sling beside the hole and stockpile the soil on the sling rather than on the ground. When you're ready to refill the ho9le, life the far side of the sling and dump it in one fell swoop. You also can use your sling as a repotting mat (to catch spilled potting soil), and it makes a great shade cover for newly planted beds. Roll up the sling and stash it in a dry place when you're not using it. When the fabric becomes fragile due to dampness or old age, pry up the staples with a screwdriver, remove the old fabric, and replace it with a new piece.
You can use any type of fabric, from burlap to old curtains. If you want to improve your sling's eye appeal, before you assemble the sling, paint the 1s2(19x38 mm) lumber a color to match the fabric.

MATERIALS and SUPPLIES
Steam iron
Two 6' (1.9m) long pieces of untreated ax2 (10 x 38 mm) pine
2 yd (1.8m) lightweight fabric at least 45" (1.1m) wide
staple gun with staples

1 Press under a 1" (2.5m) hem on both of the long sidews of the fabric.
2 Place the 1 x 2 (19x38mm) boards on a level surface, braod side down, so they are parallel and about 3' (0.9 meters) apart.
3 Position one fo the hemmed edges over one of the 1 x 2 (19x39mm) b0ards and staple it in place, allowing 4" (10cm) or so between staples.
4 Repeat Step 3 with the other long, hemmed edge fo teh fabric and remaining 1 x 2 (19x38mm) board.

 

[seedcorn]

Yes, they did grow corn in the field last year and it was very puny. They didn't plant it until late in June, because it was wet late here. But the corn wasn't planted in the same area as where I planted this spring.

The dodder has all disappeared. I asked whether they used a weed killer on it, and they said no, but I do wonder. My plot is near where the dodder was. I did empty the kitty litter on top of the dodder. I suppose that could have killed the dodder, suffocating it? But it is pretty far from my patch, too.

I planted tons of zinnia seeds and okra and other things but only the seeds nearest the heavy irrigation germinated. And the giant sunflowers had plenty of water but only one out of a whole packet of seeds germinated. The corn I planted had plenty of water but only about a third or less of the seeds (brand new) germinated. Very weird. And it took the corn 5 weeks, at least, to germinate.

What is dodder?

Depending on where u r at, sounds like dry soil. I had same problem. When it started to rain,late July, seeds planted in April came up. Don't want to say how transplants struggled and I watered daily. Now that has started to rain, plants found nutrients and garden is jungle.