Getting some UNUSUAL Beans In My Garden

[897tgigvib]

Photos coming soon.

I've mentioned that my Nova Star Beans are "segregating". They are making an assortment of different beans even though the seeds that made these plants all came from the same plant.

But I am getting other unusual beans in my garden. Nova Star's probable sibling plant made similar beans with a more subtle marking on them last year. It was less productive, but it made nice semi cutshort, semi greasy pods. I named those similar seeds, "Powder Star". I planted those this year also. They are later to produce, and so far not very productive. They are much less variable, making seeds that have a soft faint golden area near the eye that extends slightly around one side. So far the pods are small and are semi cutshort and semi greasy. The vines are nearly as vigorous as the extremely vigorous Nova Star segregations.

But these are not the only mysteries in my Bean garden. Plant enough bean varieties, save enough seed for enough years, have plenty of Bumblebees and eventually you get some crosses.

I'm getting yet another completely different black seeded pole bean in the area that I planted the large white seeded Harvey's White Seeded Haricot Tendrais. Ya know, best guess so far is that this may be the result of Allubias De Tolusa pollen pollinating a Harvey's.

In among the Dalmatian I got from Russ, one plant is making seeds that look like his Kishwaukee variety. Russ emailed me that Kishwaukee is not in its ancestry. The pods are like small versions of Dalmatian pods, and the plant is virtually indistinguishable, but just today I noticed that plant is sending up a long truss of flowers, relatively unusual among bush beans, but is a very good sign.

In among the Chickasaw, which sprawled into an incomprehensible mess before I realized they are a vigorous pole and I tied twine for them, is a plant that makes smallish seeds with shades of blue. So far only one pod from it.

My Indian Woman Yellow has a longer history with me. I've been growing them every year for...thinking...over a decade now. Each year they grow a bit differently for me. They really are true viney sprawlers. They will take to a short pole, they will grow and produce if shaded by other taller varieties, or in bright sun will make small bushy plants. Each year I seem to make a separate envelope of seeds from some plant I think is unusual, and each next year the seeds grow usual plants. Well, last year I planted seeds that came from the tallest growers in one of those teepees I made from twigs. Some of you remember pictures of those from last year? Digit could link to those posts if he wants, lol, I'm no good at linking like he is... Anyhow, one plant among those was making reddish pods so I saved all the seeds from that plant separately. This year I planted them. Sure enough, a few of them are making reddish pods. I have this feeling that reddish pods is a dominant trait, and a D/r makes the reddest pods, an almost impossible to stabilize trait. I'll just go ahead and keep a strain that makes some reddish pods. But, THAT'S not the unusual thing happening this year among them. This year, for the first time, about one fourth of the plants are making a lighter orange, more beige than anything, colored seed. The Indian Woman Yellow adventure continues!

On a clarifying note, I had gotten some seeds from a friend a couple years ago, and among them was a Kidney bean generically labeled as "Chile Kidney". I grew those this year, and have decided that they are simply another accession of "Louisiana Red Kidney", only not quite as well selected. The best of those Chile Kidney I am now mixing in with my Louisiana Red Kidney Beans. I researched Louisiana Red and discovered that there are several variations of shades of red. Mine seem to be the almost pink version, both accessions.

Burgundy Kidney still does not have a proper name. This entirely differebt Kidney Bean came from a 15 Bean mix that was from Durango Mexico that I purchased at a small store between Calpella and Ukiah. Burgundy Kidney grows VERY well on a nice commercial type bush plant, very sturdy and upright, not over filled with leaves. The burgundy colored, (Zinfandel maybe? lol), deep red kidney beans are notably smaller than Louisiana Red's beans, but still good sized. Super productive, I already have a full 12 ounce coffee can of them. (I'll be cooking some of them). I have not yet found their proper name. I'm sure these are a commercial bean, or at least formerly were. Only reason they might have been superseded would be that maybe not being as large as some other newer commercial kidneys, they would be less productive as far as volume goes. Not by weight, that's for sure. Oh, maybe newer varieties can mature more pods all at once, while these put up a good early flush of production, and now are continuing with some few dry pods every 3 or 4 days. I can see how they'd be a perfect commercial variety for Mexico, with manual labor, or the farmer and some family members going out to pick more pods weekly or so, or harvest part of the field each day once the main harvest finishes.

Burgundy Bolitas seems to be doing a similar thing to me that Indian Woman Yellow did, lol, and I'm not going to try to do too much selection on them, but I do enjoy a strain that makes some plants with pretty pods. I have no proper name for these either! They are true viney sprawlers.

There will be more mysteries as midseason gets underway.

AND THAT IS A GOOD THING!

 

[digitS']

My little mystery in the bean patch this year, Marshall, is . . . why are my soybeans doing so badly(!), while . .

. the Soldier beans seem just fine? Hey, it has been over 35 years since I've grown Soldier beans! I'm looking forward to some good bean dinners!

Oh, and I will allow the rest of my Cascade Giant/Rattlesnake volunteer pole beans to mature. They were very, very good last year and I've got Jade coming on like crazy for snapbeans.

Steve

 

[Blue-Jay]

Hi Marshall !

Kishwaukee is not in Dalmatian's ancestory, but your new bean coming out of Dalmatian might be related to Kishwaukee if Dalmatian was crossed with Kishwaukee. Then the segregation might be reverting back to a bean with a mottled or marbled seedcoat pattern. It also might be related to another bean with that type of seedcoat pattern.

I'll have more on this after I receive a reply from one of the seed technicians at Seed Savers Exchange. I need to get some clarification as to what season do you begin to see new seedcoats colors or patterns after an outcross has occured in a bean plant. I'm sure you won't see it the season the outcross has occured as the seedcoat is maternally inherited from the mother plant. I've been told it takes two growing seasons to see any new seedcoat offtypes. However at what point is considered season two. Is the season the outcross has occured season one and then the next growing season considered to be season two or does it take until the F2 bean has selved itself and produced the F3 seed that you see the seedcoat offtypes.

 

[897tgigvib]

Thank you Russ!

It'll be nice to know this for sure. At which generation does the new seed pattern appear, and what are the mechanics of segregation in Beans? Is it different than with Tomatoes? I've done about a dozen tomato crosses in my time.

Ya know, it'd also be real cool to know how to do the actual cross pollinating with beans. I kind of think it'd actually require surgical tools. Was your friend Robert Loritz doing actual cross pollinating by hand? How cool would that be? For example, crossing Dow Purple Pod pole bean with a true Greasy Cutshort pole bean. I know of no purple podded cutshorts. Or to cross Kentucky Wonder Wax with a Greasy Cutshort to make a true black seeded Wax Greasy Cutshort. Or to cross a vigorous disease resistant bean with a beautiful one that has a poor plant...

But alas, cross pollinating beans may simply require the skills of a surgeon after all...or may be spiritually best left for the bees to do...

 

[Blue-Jay]

Don't know if Rober Lobitz actually did crosses by hand. I talked to a fellow at the SSE campout last month that told me Robert Lobitz was a bean breeder, but I'm not so sure of that. I'm not sure if this fellow ever even met Robert Lobitz. I was also not a member of Seed Savers during the period when he was releasing all his bean varieties. I do have an article where someone interviewed him and Robert talked about how the Bumblebees were making all the crosses creating new varieties.

I believe you have to get take some of the petals off a bean blossom that has not opened and self polinated yet. Then you have to remove all the males parts which have the pollen on them then apply pollen from another blossom of the variety you want to cross. The blossom you take pollen from should be about a day old. After the pollen is applied you want to put a loop of tape around your blossom so you can more or less cork it with a piece of damp cottom so the pollinated blossom won't dry out and die. If you can get the hang of it. It is recommended you do about a half dozen or so blossom pollinations so you get one or two that might be successful. I've tried taking apart bean blossoms and I just seem to make a mess of them. Must take a lot of practise. The blossoms look very delicate. I wonder if a pair of those magnifying classes that dentists wear these days would be helpful in seeing closely what you are doing.


I wrote to one of the Seed Savers seed technicians this morning, and he will forward my email to someone else at SSE's Heritage Farm that he feels knows more about the subject of outcrosses in beans. Below is the words of a Juan Osorno dry bean breeder at the University of North Dakota when I asked him about bean crosses about a year ago.

"Some outcrosses are obvious when you look at the seed coat color segregation, but many go even undetected (for example, a cross between 2 black bean varieties will always give you blacks). So in the case you are noticing offtypes for the first time in your variety, the promiscuous bee made the cross pollination 2 generations ago if it follows a normal mendelian segregation (some color patterns are controlled by more than one gene). So if this is the first time you are seeing them, dont blame the bees from this summer, blame it on the ones you had 2 seasons ago".

If this is true about the two season period before you see the results of an outcross in the seedcoat. Then I believe in the case of the Dalmatian variety that it very well may have been already outcrossed somewhere else before it arrived in my hands, and that my growing the seed in 2012 I simply advanced the time you would see the outcome by one season. I'm growing Dalmatian again this year, but the seed I planted was simply more of that same seed I planted last year. So perhaps If I plant again next year. I will get some of those same looking seeds your getting this year.

Liked the article about Elwyn Meader. Thanks for finding that.

Sorry I forgot to tell you that Chicasaw will climb, but I've always grown it on the ground as a bush bean and never thought much about it's climbing abilities. Always have thought of it as a bush bean. I might should try grownig them on some sore of wire fence support. I might get more good seed out them instead of so many pods layng near the ground.