getting started in socal

[littletom]

i'm in the beginning stages of planning a small urban garden in coastal san diego and would like some input on appropriate veggies and herbs to plant or avoid planting at this time. space and $ is limited so i'm trying to get the most bang for my buck while focusing on plants that my gf and i eat the most.

here is my abbreviated wishlist in a rough order of priority:

cucumbers
carrots
strawberries
tomatoes
onions
potatoes
peppers (bell and small/chili)
herbs (basil, parsley, cilantro, maybe garlic, anything easy to grow in a small area)
chard
some type of melon

i'm gonna leave a few off the list like lettuce, sweet corn, and citrus fruits since i don't think they will be cost effective or i simply don't have room/time for them to grow. also i would love to add tobacco to the list but i don't know if the local authorities would take too kindly to that

any suggestions on proper techniques for cultivating these plants in socal with the goal being a long term savings on the grocery bill? am i missing some better ones? and most importantly will these all grow together in the same bed or should some be seperated? i plan on using a small raised bed garden, maybe 4' x 8' or so, with a mix of local dirt and fertilizer/potting mix but i have room for 2 beds if necessary. my only problem is the area i have to plant in is typically shaded by trees. also, if anyone knows where to get good seeds or seedlings locally i would love some help in the area. i am very close to the farms in the tijuana river valley and know they have a wide diversity of crops so if anyone could recommend one of those for seeds and supplies it would be great. any and all advice is appreciated. thanks

littletom

 

[digitS']

, littletom to the forums!

I thought to say this here rather than the "where am I" post because the temptation there was to tell you we wouldn't talk to you until you can report on the condition of a TEG member in your community who had surgery last month. We are all terribly worried about him, know only that he has some family support in the area - and, don't even yet know if he is out of the hospital . . and then, here on this thread you ask about local information. Well, IF YOU WILL JUST LOCATE "Hoodat" -- I am sure he can help!

Well . There are a couple other TEG folks who live north of you who may know about your side of town. . . doesn't everyone in the US/Canada live north of you? No, that's not true but if you look due north, yeah way up here near the 49th parallel, here I am ! Almost on exactly the same line of longitude but far in the interior and not with a similar climate. Welcome to TEG! And, here is how I can help:

On the other side of the country , Virginia Tech has a webpage on Intensive Gardening. I think the advice is first rate and if you click this link (click) you will find a list of "high value" veggies for the intensive garden.

I am a little surprised that storage onions appear on the list. You may be surprised about others. VT may not have considered strawberries but I think it is a wise choice. The idea with the storage onions and others isn't just price-per-pound but the square feet of garden required and length of time the crop is in the garden. I do as much "succession planting" as I can but that factor must mean even more to you in your location. I can grow Asian greens in the ground where bulb onions have been harvested. You probably have a much wider choice of veggies.

Have fun, please ask lots of questions, and report on your progress!

Steve

 

[so lucky]

Hello, and Welcome! You say the area you are wanting to put a garden is is typically shaded by trees. Are you planning to cut them down or severely trim them back? Does grass or anything else grow in your target area? Not being from SO Cal, I don't know what kind of trees you have, but my experience is that the shading and the roots are both a real deterrant to making garden. Most vegetables do best with about 6 to 10 hours of sun. In the hottest part of the season, more shade is appreciated, but, still, they gotta have a few hours of sun. I have a big elm on the northeast side of my yard. It shades the garden till about 9:00 AM these days, but there is still sun till 6:00 PM or so. The roots give me fits every time I dig a hole, as they extend far beyond the drip line.
One of the biggest problems new gardeners have is that they plant too big a garden to keep weeded. You might want to plan on a way to keep weeds from smothering your crops (and you) right at first, so it doesn't overwhelm you. If you are not particularly trying to grow organically, you can use Treflan after the veggie plants are up. It helps a lot for the annual grass/weed seeds. I mostly use layers of newspaper and cover with straw, in the paths and right up to the plants.
There are lots of great gardeners on this forum, and lots of information in the old discussions. Use the "Search" feature to see what the experts have said in the past. You might want to invest in some ice packs and a heating pad for your sure-to-come aching back! Have fun!

 

[so lucky]

Hey, littletom, now I see on a different post that you are an experienced gardener, so you can disregard my "preaching" in my previous post. :/

 

[littletom]

cool!! thanks for the link digits! sorry i can't help locate hoody for you guys, he was a member of a local fishing forum in socal and everyone has been wondering when he would be back there too. hopefully all is well with him. he's an awesome old fart.

yeah, i guess when you live in a city that prides itself on being "the most southwesterly city is the continental US" pretty much everyone else winds up a bit north of you but i know that the locale is prime for farming. i actually live a mile or 2 from a very fertile farm valley and the funny thing is some of the local residents don't even know theres so many farms and ranches there. i'll have to post some pics when i get a chance.

so hmmm, looking at the list of time/cost effectiveness for square foot gardening, no surprise to see corn at the top and had a feeling melons would be up there too. are any types of melons still worth the effort in your opinion? also, looking at the link it reminded me i forgot to put beans on my wish list! doh! how could i forget to add either string beans or snap peas to the list? i used to eat them right of the stalk every summer growing up, and they're definitely going in my garden. just need to figure out my trellisse or cage system for the viney plants. as far as strawberries are concerned they grow quite well out here and, plain and simple, my gf and i love them fresh so they made it toward the top of my list. even if i can't get them in abundance there are a few small farms within a mile or so of us that we can pick them from for cheap so i'm not too worried if they prove tough to keep in high supply.

i will try my best to keep up on posting my progress but of course for the time being it's gonna be more question asking then anything else.

 

[littletom]

Hello, and Welcome! You say the area you are wanting to put a garden is is typically shaded by trees. Are you planning to cut them down or severely trim them back? Does grass or anything else grow in your target area? Not being from SO Cal, I don't know what kind of trees you have, but my experience is that the shading and the roots are both a real deterrant to making garden. Most vegetables do best with about 6 to 10 hours of sun. In the hottest part of the season, more shade is appreciated, but, still, they gotta have a few hours of sun. I have a big elm on the northeast side of my yard. It shades the garden till about 9:00 AM these days, but there is still sun till 6:00 PM or so. The roots give me fits every time I dig a hole, as they extend far beyond the drip line.
One of the biggest problems new gardeners have is that they plant too big a garden to keep weeded. You might want to plan on a way to keep weeds from smothering your crops (and you) right at first, so it doesn't overwhelm you. If you are not particularly trying to grow organically, you can use Treflan after the veggie plants are up. It helps a lot for the annual grass/weed seeds. I mostly use layers of newspaper and cover with straw, in the paths and right up to the plants.
There are lots of great gardeners on this forum, and lots of information in the old discussions. Use the "Search" feature to see what the experts have said in the past. You might want to invest in some ice packs and a heating pad for your sure-to-come aching back! Have fun!

i guess i should be using the "quote" feature to keep things organized, right?

so, the trees that are shading the area are the one problem i'm really kinda "stumped" on (horrible pun, i know) here are some pics of the area so hopefully you can get a better idea of what im describing.

for reference, i'm facing west while taking these pictures. the large tree provides the most shade over the small yard but there is also a row of trees in the neighbors yard to the west so basically after 4 or 5 PM there is no direct sunlight anywhere in the yard though half of the yard is already shaded by noon. i rent so the best i can do is trim back the tree in my yard, which would take some pretty heavy trimming. it's not really mine to chop down. i guess it's ironic but when we moved into this place the tree was bald and half the lawn was dirt while the other half was weeds but in the process of me planting grass seed and watering the lawn, which hadn't been done in a long time, the tree bloomed and provided all the shade i'm now contending with

i'm not worried about the roots of the tree as i plan on doing raised beds and may even line the bottoms of them with chicken wire to combat burrowing critters and i'm young and able enough to contend with a little bit of weeding. my original plan was to plant the garden next to the house itself and if i wound up needing more room or expanding, make the second bed on along the eastern fence (right behind the private parking sign) but now i'm thinking the other way around might be better since i have to deal with the shade issue. what makes things worse as far as a lack of direct sun is involved is that i live on the coast. it's 7 AM in those photos i just took and notice how you can't see any shadows? that's because the coast typically has a marine layer of clouds, especially in the morning when the sun is in the east and would be shining on my lawn. i know i can still get my plants to grow even in the less than optimal conditions, but i'm still worried about stunting my garden's growth or yield due to a lack of healthy sun. any tips to contend with the shade issue? or just deal with the hand i've been dealt and suffer less than optimal plants?

 

[ninnymary]

Hi littletom and welcome! I know what you mean by that marine layer as I get it to. I suppose you use that driveway? Is there any room there where you could put that raised bed? If it's a long driveway, perhaps at the end and then you could park your car in back of it? You could tell the landlord that you would remove the bed when you move. Just a suggestion. Also, ask the landlord if he could take the tree down and perhaps plant a smaller one elsewhere in the yard. Never hurts to ask.

Mary

 

[littletom]

Hi littletom and welcome! I know what you mean by that marine layer as I get it to. I suppose you use that driveway? Is there any room there where you could put that raised bed? If it's a long driveway, perhaps at the end and then you could park your car in back of it? You could tell the landlord that you would remove the bed when you move. Just a suggestion. Also, ask the landlord if he could take the tree down and perhaps plant a smaller one elsewhere in the yard. Never hurts to ask.

Mary

unfortunately the driveway is off limits. it's a common parking lot for the 4-plex i live in and it's already parked to the max with one of the 4 units vacant. i could talk to the landlord about removing the tree but i seriously doubt they wanna touch it. the best i would expect from them would be for them to let me have it professionally removed at my expense and that's not something i can afford to have done. it would probably actually benefit them to remove the tree since i'm sure the roots are a ticking timebomb waiting to ruin the foundation of the building and pipe lines but for the amount of rent we pay it would take them a year just to pay off the tree removal fees. i'm gonna ask and see what they say. in the meantime i'll see what i can accomplish by trimming half of the tree down and try to gauge how many hours of sunlight i can get on an average day.

 

[so lucky]

littletom, I think Marshallsmyth might have some ideas about increasing light. He mentioned using white something to reflect light in his tree-shaded gardens. Maybe you could paint the wall white. Or use white plastic sheeting on the ground. Or plant flowering things--like tomatoes--in big pots that you could move around to the light. ?? Must be a way...