Productive Seed-Saved Varieties

[digitS']

Something Wifezilla was saying about her experience with Collective Farm Woman melons got me thinking about heirlooms and garden production. Production seems to be the bad rap about heirlooms. Of course, it discourages seed saving. Maybe if we talked some about what we have found to be productive and healthy varieties, it may help other gardeners.

First of all, bean and pea varieties are never hybrids - at least, that is my understanding. One can hybridize beans and peas but, given the shape of the flowers, it requires a special process. (Someone correct me if I'm wrong.) So, saving seed for most any variety is reasonable.

Heirlooms are most often found in the tomato patch. My climate is "large heirloom challenged!" I just about cannot grow an 80-day tomato. As far as beefsteaks go, only Prudens Purple has ripened well in my garden and only just a few days before 1st frost. It was a very nice, productive tomato but I can't go beyond that as a recommendation for beefsteaks.

Large Red Cherry was a mainstay in my garden for, probably, over 35 years. With that generic name, you might think that it is not much of an heirloom but that cherry is from an Ohio gardener named Ben Quisenberry, the same guy who saved the Brandywine many years ago.

Large Red Cherry is a large plant and it is very productive. I saved seed and replanted for years.

A "find" this year is Mr. Stripey (Tigerella). There is a large-fruited "Mr. Stripey" but I'm not talking about that one. Tigerella is a plum, very pretty, very early, and very productive! I'm sold!

How about in your gardens? What open-pollinated varieties produce well?

Steve

 

[journey11]

This summer I stepped out into the exciting world of heirloom pole beans!

This year I tried the Nickell bean. I bought 2 others at the time and they are hanging out in the fridge to be planted the next couple years. It was hard to narrow it down to just a couple... (It's easiest to isolate beans, need at least 200 yards apart. So all I grew this year were "Sam's scarlet runners" that HiD gave me and these Nickell beans.) There are still greasy beans I want to try too.

We're sold on the tenderness and flavor we never knew a green been could possess!! They are heavy producers too. I'm saving seed for future summers and also for trade. These are beans that don't hold up well to commercial practices, but make up for it in so many other ways. These Nickell beans are hardy too, coming through the summer disease free and not attacked much by pests. I haven't had to spray anything.

This is why I haven't been on here much lately--all the time I've been spending picking and snapping beans to put up for winter!

I've enjoyed many heirloom tomatoes this summer too, new ones that I haven't tried before. Of course, I don't have the growing season restrictions that you have, Steve. There really aren't any that I can't grow if I want. (I hate that you can't enjoy a big juicy ol' brandywine! ) This was my first year for Black Krims and we have decided that we can't live without them! I saved seeds on those. Delicious (heirloom beefsteak type) are a staple in my garden as well. I have saved seeds on both of those for future trading. There was a wonderful globe-shaped, medium-sized, yellow heirloom tomato my neighbor gave me. She told me the name and I forgot it and when I asked her again, she too had forgotten it. I'm saving seed off of it too and hope I can hunt down it's identity. It was the only tomato in my garden this year that didn't cat-face on me. I also liked the San Marzanos and saved seed off of them.

Now that's the easy things for me to save seed off of. I wasn't able to give my peppers much isolation, other than to separate the sweets from the hots by distance. I thought I'd get around to saving seed on them. There's still some time for that, but I'll have to go to the trouble of hand-pollinating and bagging...

I'm just now getting into this seed saving on my veggies, although I've done it on flowers for years. It will take some time to see how things work out, refining a strain that suits my particular garden.

 

[digitS']

Fedco has isolation for seed saving as 100' for beans and 50' for peas, even tho' they have them as "self" pollinating. (Fedco) I guess this confuses me, Journey. But, I was mostly talking about what we can do with seed from plants grown from purchased seed, which, I believe, is never hybrid.

Black Krim tomatoes sure seems to get "good press" - tasty and productive.

Thessaloniki is another heirloom that does real well in my garden. It usually has fruit in the 6 to 8 ounce range and, once again, ripens just before frost. I'm not sure how good this Mediterranean variety would do in more humid climates, however.

Steve

 

[journey11]

Can't remember now where I read 200 yards on the beans...it was somewhere online. I looked it up in my copy of Seed to Seed and for common beans (bush and pole), although the flowers are perfect and self-pollinating, crossing is increased based on the number of bees and pollinators working your area and if other sources of nectar are available (beans being not first choice). The effects of course not showing up until the next generation planted. If nothing else, don't plant them side by side. Honey bees tend to work one crop at a time, with mason bees and bumblebees industriously hitting everything in their range.

So I guess they will pollinate themselves, but can be contaminated by pollinating insects. I know the mason bees (and some other tiny bee that I don't know the name of) have been hitting my scarlet runner beans daily.

Runner beans, they say need a good 1/2 mile of isolation between them!

I would have question the note Fedco makes on loss of vigor. The place I got my heirloom pole beans from preserves varieties of beans that were passed down in families living in very isolated areas of the Appalachian mts. Grandma saving her seeds on likely one sole variety, year after year... Each bean is named for the family/area that propagated it.

 

[digitS']

. . .
I would have question the note Fedco makes on loss of vigor. . . .

I see no reason at all why they should lose vigor if the gardener selects seed from vigorous plants.

vigorS'

 

[journey11]

That's what I was thinking, select the best. Unless maybe they meant to say "viability", shelf-life of the stored seed? I took vigor to mean the genetic stability of the strain. Like inbreeding, ha.

 

[hiker125]

This is very helpful thread.

I made my first foray into heirlooms this season and am about to give up.

My peppers (California Yellow Wonder) look beautiful, but only produced stunted, tiny fruit. The brandwine is also very low producing. Cherokee Purple has a few very large tomatos.

Same with the jalepenos. I dont recall the name, but ordered them from Victory Seed.

My Kentucky Wonder pole beans were planted late (August 1) but seem to be doing pretty well.

Thanks for all the suggestions. Can you also include your source for the seeds so we can order them for next year? Thanks.

 

[journey11]

Hi Hiker125, I can understand your frustration. Heirlooms usually have flavor and variety going for them, but many have been abandoned in favor of disease resistance or productivity that better suits commercial markets. Sometimes conditions in your area will make for poor results with certain heirlooms. Your local agricultural extension agent may be able to suggest varieties that will perform well for you (some ag ext are sold out on hybrids, while some take great interest in heirlooms). At the very least, they may be able to put you in touch with a Master gardener in your area who will have that knowledge.

I've done most of my shopping with Swallowtail Seeds. I also like Baker Creek. Seed Saver's Exchange is also frequently mentioned on here. I got my beans from Sustainable Mountain Agriculture Inc.

Another great way to try new things (and you'll find many people saving their own heirlooms too) is the Seed Train we do on here, so be sure to check that out. I got my Black Krims in in a trade on there and several other things that I really enjoyed growing in my garden this year.

 

[wifezilla]

Russian Black Plum Tomato: VERY productive. Large vines, but loaded with fruit.
Ground Cherry: I can't believe how much fruit I am getting off the two plants I have. One plant is tiny but I am still picking up dropped fruit.
Collective Farm Woman: Would have done better if I planted it earlier or started some indoors. Well worth the effort.

NOT very productive BUT still worth it...
Pink Trip-L-Crop tomato: Unbelievable flavor

 

[hiker125]

Thanks Journey.

I will look into the seed train. Are there instructions on how it works?

I did go to a local store to get my seeds that supposedly only stocks what grows best here, but maybe it was my inexperience.

Thanks Wifezilla on the tomatos. I LOVE maters, but can't find that perfect one-YET.