Questions on Planning my Orchard

[bigredfeather]

I am in the process of choosing the type and size of apple and pear trees to plant. Initially I thought I wanted semi-dwarf, but now I'm thinking maybe go with the dwarf. I have a limited amount of area in which to plant my trees, so I want to space them as close as I can to fully utilize the area.

For semi dwarf trees, how far apart should I plant the trees in the row, and how far apart should the rows be spaced apart?

Same questions for dwarf.

Which size (dwarf or semi dwarf) do you have and why?

And finally, what is the typical yield for a dwarf and semi dwarf after they are fully grown?

Thanks.

 

[vfem]

Well generally I think Semi-dwarf are 12-15 ft apart to get the most out of the tree. I wouldn't do less then 12 with semi dwarf. I read you get a LOT more fruits from a semi dwarf tree then a dwarf no matter what you do.

Later on, if you want more fruit types and choices in a small space, you can always graph the trees with new types of branches. That takes some time to learn, I've looked into it and decided not to, we have room for 9 semi-dwarf trees and thats enough for us.

You want to look into fruits that work well together... things that cross pollinate well. Usually having 2 or more a of tree is what you need for the best possible pollination. Like Red Delicious and Johnathon Red cross pollinate well.... Also, think about having an early variety and a late variety. It would be nice to have a harvest in Late July and another one in Early September! Rather then have all your trees to harvest at once in say August!

We did an early variety Lodi in yellow, and red Johnathon that cross pollinate each other. We also did some large Georgia Peach Blush variety mixed in with Apples. The peach ripens between the 2 apple times.

Small spaces can be rich with flavors!

I would go with the semi-dwarf over dwarf... for sure!

 

[Ridgerunner]

I pretty much agree with Vfem, You'll get more production in the space with semi-dwarf rather than dwarf. You're talking three dimensions of space, not two. The semi-dwarfs will get taller, so you utilize more available space. I understand the recomendation is 10' spacing for dwarf and 15 for semi-dwarf. Think not only the spacing for the tres, but give yourself room to mow around them if that is in your plans.

When I got my fruit trees, I got both dwarf and semi-dwarf apples but went with full sized pear trees. The pears are planted north of the apples so they will not block and sun on my apple trees. I did space them further out, but I figure they will make up for it in using the additional height to get sunlight. Maybe something to consider.

I also agree on getting more than one variety as Vfem mentioned. Not only do you get production of different apples at different times of the year, they need other varieties that bloom at the same time as pollinators. You may already know this, but an apple tree will not pollinate itself. It needs another variety for good pollination. I think it is good too to have an eating apple, a cooking apple, a sauce apple, a storage apple, an apple butter apple, different varieties for different uses.

If space is really tight, you might consider getting those trees that come already grafted with two or more different apple varieties on the same tree. These are usually apples that are good pollinators of each other.

Good luck!!

 

[bigredfeather]

Thanks to both of you. I never thought about the 3rd dim of tree size as it pertains to total yield. I was just looking at pear trees again and noticed there is no semi-dwarfs for pears where I am looking to buy (Stark Bros). Is it plausable to keep a standard size tree trimmed to the point where is close to the same size as a SD w/out damaging the trees? I would definetly keep them to the North of the Semi dwarf trees so they wouldn't shade them.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I've never tried it so I don't know.

 

[ninnymary]

(Is it plausable to keep a standard size tree trimmed to the point where is close to the same size as a SD w/out damaging the trees? I would definetly keep them to the North of the Semi dwarf trees so they wouldn't shade them.

My friend once took me to her mother in laws house to see her apple tree. I don't know if it was a standard or semi-dwarf. This women had wacked the heck out of it. Yet it was lovely! It was about 6' tall, had beautiful big apples that were very good. She said she didn't want the tree tall because then she couldn't reach the apples. She said she didn't know about pruning, she just cuts till she's happy with how it looks. Well it worked for her!

Mary

 

[vfem]

You know what... I have to go find it, but... I found a site that showed how to plant an apple tree (dwarf and semi-dwarf) and make it so the tree was flat against the back wall of a house. It was growing trellis style.

Thepage was all about growing in small spaces! I can't remember the site... but it was awesome! That tree took some trimming, but I don't see why not. I do think you are over thinking it though.

As for standard size trees... I would have both unless the standard size can run small, like apricots and plums... the standard size isn't too huge.

I think standard pears are around 30 ft wide?! My neighbor in CT growing up had one that hung over our driveway... my mom hated it when she got out of the car in the fall. :/ Oh, well.... we were renters what could you do? You just get a bucket or 2 of pears as an I'm sorry!

Here I found a better one on how:
http://www.vegetablegardener.com/item/2453/how-to-grow-espalier-apple-trees

By the way, I got my trees from ArborDay.org and I got several gorgeous trees when you think about it! Think perfect sleeping sicks that were 4ft tall! My husband totally flipped out screaming we were ripped off! This twig was dead! What was I thinking. I carefully planted them anyways. I cared for them and as soon as we saw life, my husband babied those trees like you wouldn't believe. Fresh mulch, weeded their mounds every week, watered as often as he should without question.

These were planted Fall or 08' I think, and one Peach tree this past Fall. So now we just wait! So exciting huh!?

 

[Rosalind]

Is it plausable to keep a standard size tree trimmed to the point where is close to the same size as a SD w/out damaging the trees?

Standard, no, but if space is a real issue, I'd go with training semidwarf apples or pears as espaliers or cordons:
Apple trees grown as cordons
That way you can grow a whole bunch of varieties in a quite small space.