Sun/no Sun, Wind/no Wind, "Wall/no Wall"

[digitS']

I will edit this post when I can add "Wall/no Wall" to the subject line.

The frame for the new hoop house may go up today. I was able to put together the south side of the shed so that the plastic film can be attached to it - I hope. This is a new "design" for me altho' the shed looks an awful lot like one of the "calving sheds" we used to have on the farm . I am curious if it will make as much difference in temperatures much difference from my already existing hoop house (no shed).

What I call "my greenhouse" could more accurately be called a "sunshed." You can see a picture of the greenhouse and the interior of the existing hoop house if you click "My Page" and scroll to the bottom. I will get a picture of the new shed-attached hoop house on there soon - when I can get it finished .

Friday, I got some work done on the new hoop house but the weather was just too miserable on Thursday to be out there.

Friday, at 2pm: 40F, wind 5mph, 40% cloud cover
Thursday, at 2pm: 42F, wind 25mph, 85% cloud cover

I had the greenhouse furnace on both mornings but it had been long OFF by Friday at 2pm. Thursday, I'm not sure if the temperature rose above the thermostat setting of 64 more than 30 or 45 minutes at any time through the day.

I struggled with keeping things cool in the greenhouse through Friday. At 11am it was 78 and I opened a vent. It was only 33 outdoors at that time (overnight low of 24). Struggling is the right word! I'm trying NOT to let that 33 air in on the tiny seedlings on the table and the temperature kept climbing! In an hour, with a small vent open, it was above 80. I opened the fan cover - now, air is moving thru but near the peak of the greenhouse. Still the temperature climbs! By 2:30pm the temperature was 83 and I've wedged the door open an inch and propped a board against it. We had actually had a brief hailstorm from a passing cloud just before 2pm!

As I say, Thursday, the thermostat didn't even want to turn the furnace off! I opened nothing at any time that day.

I had the window of the hoop house open yesterday but had to close it for about an hour around the time of the hail storm. No doubt, the thermostat in the greenhouse pushing the temperature in there to 64 during the morning, made a difference in afternoon temperatures but NOT that much! It is mostly the insulated north wall and roof. I will report back on the difference between 2pm afternoon temperatures between the 2 structures later today. They are nearly the same size altho' the greenhouse is about 20sqft larger and quite a bit taller - so there is a fair amount more cubic feet of air on about the same amount of ground.

All of this is to get you thinking about the value of building a sunshed vs. a structure with no insulation at all.

Steve

 

[thistlebloom]

Well, you've got me thinking....I have an equipment shed up front where I have my original garden space. It's all post big horse space, corral and shed. DH put a big rolling barn door on the shed when the horse was gone so I could store my tools and equipment in there and lock it.

I'm thinking I could maybe build a sunshed arrangement on the front of it....but it would be on the west side of it, so it wouldn't get much early sun, except at the height of summer when the sun moves north. Do you think that would be enough of a negative to not make it worthwhile?

Here's a pic, only one I have of it. Excuse the wildlife.

 

[digitS']

Ha! Shouldn't that be your avatar, Thistle' ?

I am inclined to say that being limited to a western exposure may not be so good. It may be a prejudice. I noticed that Catjac said the other day that an eastern exposure isn't so good! I think it could mean that she lives where the afternoon sun isn't so harsh! I want the plants to see the sun as soon as they can in the morning. Take the overnight chill off them. That's another thing, the very cool mornings here.

Anyway, that's outdoors. Protective growing under plastic or glass: I don't know - it is quite a different environment inside a greenhouse than outside. Yeah, mornings might be like eastern Massachusetts in there . I seem to have said - I don't know about an exposure limited to the west. It may provide that little bit more warmth that you need, Thistle'. I just can't see it as doing much more than that with the shading of the plants thru half the day.

I have fiddled around with this response until it is now 1pm. Outdoors, it is 37. The greenhouse was 31 and the hoop house 29 when it was 19 at sunrise and I turned the greenhouse furnace on and moved the plants out there.

It has been off since 11am when the sun had pushed the temperature nearly to 70. At that time, it was 49 in the hoop house. I opened a greenhouse vent (very passive cooling) at 11am. I have just opened the fan cover since it is 80 in there, over 2 hours after the furnace went off. The hoop house is still tight as a drum (well, sort of). It is 55 in the hoop house.

There is a fair amount of lovely cotton-ball clouds but still a fair amount of sunshine, also. The extra cloudiness has meant things haven't warmed up under the plastic quite as quickly as yesterday. I'd say the Bok Choy in the hoop house may be a bit disappointed with the conditions over the last few days but they are okay. It couldn't have been wonderful that it froze in there this morning but they should be fine.

I will have the hoop house window open in another hour but I bet I have to open the greenhouse door just a crack. I am NOT going to turn on a fan with the air temperature this cold outdoors :/! Oh, and the temperature in the greenhouse with a little air coming in for an hour: 82.

Steve

 

[digitS']

Sheesh! It is snowing hard . . . melting as it hits, so far.

Greenhouse didn't get above 82. Hoop house didn't get above 55. I have closed both greenhouse vents and the hoop house window was never opened.

Buddy the Dog wasn't in the neighbor's yard so I suspect Ken is sleeping in on his day off . . . I ran the power saw a little in my yard but better not go over in Ken's yard and begin hammering on anything. . .

Soon, transplanting hundreds of plants out of cookie boxes and into flats will take up my hours during times like this. For now, I will just beat my head against the wall!

Steve

 

[lesa]

Sounds like progress to me! I had to shovel snow again, this morning... I guess I really have to get out into my greenhouse, don't I? Bought new window openers last weekend- maybe tomorrow will be installation day. Oh, and I bought a big bag of dirt and a bunch of onion sets. See, I do have hope!

 

[digitS']

I never did see either Ken or Buddy. Vehicle in the driveway, guess I could have knocked on the door but the whole idea was to allow the swing shift guy to sleep late on his day off. Finally, decided that the drill wouldn't make too much noise, had waited out the snow storm and stayed busy until dark, about 3 hours . . .

I don't really think that my shed will make much of a difference this year. The last of March is a little late to insulate it. It occupies only 32ft out of a total of 128ft rather than over half the square feet, like the sunshed.

I'm always trying, tho' . The other hoop house is only 5 feet tall and the central path is excavated. That low profile was my attempt to keep it out of the wind a little and to make use of the soil's ability to hold heat. Maybe it helps a little but the sunshed was one of my better ideas. I'd go the whole 9 yards with another one at Ken's but, spending a few thousand just doesn't quite make that much sense .

Steve

 

[digitS']

All day sunshine with little wind -- hit 45 this afternoon after a 22 morning.

The heat was on in the greenhouse at 8am so that I could get the seedlings out there. Before the heat went on, it was 33.

I didn't check the morning temperature in the hoop house.

By 10:30am the thermostat had long before turned the furnace off and it was 74. Within a half hour the temperature was over 80 and I had a vent open. It seemed to make a difference for an hours or so and at 84, I opened the fan cover. Still only 30 minutes or so of cooling - by 1:30, I had the automatic intake fan on. The intake fan thermostat setting was left very low, 64 and that 40 degree outside air turned it off quickly. So, I had the exhaust fan on by 3pm and that ran until nearly 5!!! Never was the temperature more than a few degrees below 80 from 11am to 5.

I'm worked my way backwards with fans and vents and the greenhouse is closed but still 64 at 6:30. All the plant starts are back in the house, at my elbow & in the utility room.

Meanwhile, in the hoop house, I opened the window first at noon with the temperature at only 58. The door was opened a little by 2:30 when 68 was reached. I don't know if it ever got any warmer than low 70's, which I was happy with.

Sunshed greenhouse: plastic film south wall, insulated northwall and roof, steel door in west wall and about that much room on the east wall is insulated stud wall. Walls & sloped ceiling are covered with aluminum covered foam insulation. It doesn't do all that great holding onto heat overnight but, Good Heavens, it can pick up heat if there's the least bit of daytime sunshine!

Hoop house: plastic film over pvc pipe, framed door & window also plastic film. Comfort level can be reached mid-day and I know I can bake things in there on a nice warm day.

Steve

 

[897tgigvib]

When the floor of the greenhouse is 4 or 5 feet below the surface level of the fround, a 6 inch thick concrete foundation for a wall subsurface to a foot above, and the greenhouse is double leyered with plastic and positive air pressure between the layers, those wild temperature swings are not so wild.

 

[digitS']

I am sure that is true, Marshall. Our soil temperature several feet down is about 55. More exposure to soil at that depth would stabilize (if that is the right word) the greenhouse air temperature. However, I don't want a 55 greenhouse, either . Be nice if it wasn't 33 again this morning.

Have I told you about the old greenhouse I used to visit? I'd deliver something to these folks every now and then and waltz right in to the nearest door - which was this greenhouse from probably the 1920's.

The ground level was at my elbow. The greenhouse was essentially a gabled roof sitting at ground level on a concrete foundation - might even have been a concrete block foundation. They had several like this. I always thought it was a capital idea !

Of course, it was very narrow - probably no more than 8' wide. You had to climb on a little step ladder to reach across to the far sides of the beds.

This experience was part of the reason why I built a 5' high hoop house but my center path is only excavated to about 16". Actually, I had a very sore back at that time and didn't want to go any deeper but, imagine, move several feet of soil out of the center path and have a 3' high hoop house . BTW - you have to have a little outdoor "vetibule" with steps down to get thru the door into a structure like this.

Steve

 

[897tgigvib]

Digit, if you look at my avatar picture, I'm in the greenhouse I described. They made the foundation up to elbow high, as you can see. It is 20 by 40. Course they used an excavator to dig it out. Other side of their property has the mountain of it.

It does not stabilize at 55. Maybe if they went down 6 foot it might almost. In winter it is kept heated but cool 38 or 40 at night, warms in day. While I was there we added a small pond in it.

You easily tan in a plastic lined greenhouse.