the Other Side of the Earth

[digitS']

You may want to skip below the #'s:

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Here's something I've been looking at since I downloaded Google Earth a year or 2 ago. Perhaps, I should have put this in the "Where am I, Where are you?" forum but I don't really think that there's anyone on the other side of the Earth from me!! The other side of the Earth from me isn't earth, it's the Deep Blue Sea!!

"In geography, the antipodes . . . of any place on Earth is the point on the Earth's surface which is diametrically opposite to it. . . . . the longest day at one point corresponds to the shortest day at the other, and midwinter at one point is contemporaneous with midsummer at the other (Wikipedia)." So, Christchurch New Zealand is almost exactly opposite to Corua Spain.

The closest land to my antipode is the Kerguelen Islands. Wikepedia notes that these islands are also known as Desolation Islands and are in the southern Indian Ocean. France (which claims the islands) "maintains a permanent presence of 50 to 100 scientists, engineers and researchers." These islands are so far SOUTH that this is nearly the Antarctic!

Okay, nothing much garden-related to this location . . . well, how about what I call my "counterpoint" it goes to the idea of "climes" - a concept that was first written about by Aristotle. (Did Aristotle ever leave Greece? I don't think so . . .) Anyway, climes have something to do with "climates" and now you see how this is all garden-related.

My counterpoint is straight thru the Earth but in the northern hemisphere. It is somewhere north of Baikal Lake in Kazakhstan. Now, we are getting somewhere!

Well, we are getting somewhere, kind of but not really. There aren't many people that live in that part of the world and it has only opened up to westerners recently with the collapse of the Soviet Union. Besides, my counterpoint is so far into the interior of the Eurasian continent that the climate is different than mine. As best as I understand, it is both colder and drier.
So, that was just a fun little exercise ; TEG audience .

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"Google Earth has encountered a problem and needs to close. We are sorry for the inconvenience . . ."

Well, where is it that there is a similar climate to our gardens?? Sure, we can draw a circle of about 100 miles or something from our locations. Or, use the USDA hardiness zones to draw some conclusions about one place to another. (Keep in mind that the "hardiness zones" have to do with climate outside of the growing season.)

Sunset Magazine zones are helpful but only for the US and the seed suppliers don't seem to pay any attention to them. And, that's what I'm talking about - - #1, plant varieties that are highly suitable to the unique climates of our gardens; and, #2, geography fun .

For my corner of the world, the climate of the western slope of the Rockies is all somewhat similar. The idea breaks up a little in Wyoming but about the most similar, somewhat distant, environment that I've been in is in southwestern Colorado, not far from Durango. Hard to find an exact location with similar temperatures, rainfall, etc. etc. but the natural flora shows the climate similarities. (Lots more snow in Durango even tho' the winter temps are about the same - and we are talking about the "growing season" here .)
Recently, I've discovered (and hope that I've got this right . . .) that the mountains of northern Spain have a similar summer climate :bee. I'm ready to pack my bags!! There's a research opportunity -- how do I garden in my corner of the world and take advantage of it?!?

How about your neck of the woods?? Hattie is a world traveler and we've already discussed her garden climate a little. It may be a bit similar to the southern part of the Puget Sound area, IF I remember correctly. I can appreciate how it is not all that easy to come up with these comparisons living "near Oxford UK" and even finding that you garden "in zone 8" . What about you? Wanna play . . . .!?

Steve

 

[Greensage45]

Hi Steve,

Your brain has mine working for the moment! LOL

I am grasping what you are saying about the antipode being directly opposite, diametrically; but, the part about "Climes" is this more a matter of being on the same hemisphere of the planet but directly along the Latitude lines and then equally half the circumference (which is your Longitude across the top and over)?

Did I say that right?

For me, I am directly along the Latitude lines of these places:

Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Libya, (Not Egypt), Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan, China, and Japan. I seem to be too far North for India, and too far south for South Korea.

On the Longitude of those Northern Hemisphere locations my likely matched "counterpart" would be 'Islamabad' Pakistan.

I have Google Earth loaded and I am not sure if there is an option for finding an antipode of a location with the click of a button, or if you were able to do this via Lat-Long calculations. (I really hate math).

I did find this page Antipode Map and it shows me to be somewhere in the Indian Ocean.

I think your question or thoughts are on equal and opposite weather locations? I really don't think the Earth works in those terms. As much as each of the above Countries have similar dry, arid, and desert like conditions like I do, I would apt to say that in the not too distant past these locations were lush, fertile, and wet. Even my own region is different now then when the Anasazi Indians were here. So the drying part may only encompass the past 1000 years or more, making the phenomenon of my Precipitation or lack-of to be across the Longitudinal Belt.

Not only that, but the hemispheric twin of my location has the Himalayas to contend with, also a different effect may be happening from their unique jet stream directions. I know that elevation is key when dealing with temperatures and such, but the Rockies are doing something unique for themselves, just as any mountain range would.

I know that the weather that Hattie deals with has to do with the Gulf Stream. Just as right now there is record/historic flooding going on there that is a result of Hurricane Ida. Have you seen that on the News? It is pretty bad there right now and they are calling this the Storm of 800 year cycle! Wow!

LOL, I do like that you are causing my fossilized brain cells to work, but I am not sure I am grasping it quite the same.

Did that make sense?

If I were to try to find my weather-twin or Zone, I guess I would first go for Elevation, then I would determine Precipitation; then, when I located "Hell", I would say I found my twin location. LOL

I do know that if a plant is deemed "Mediterranean" then the chances of it surviving here in Las Cruces is really good!

OK, I think I caused a braincell to blow! LOL I saw something fly across the room.

Ron

 

[ducks4you]

Steve, You're TEASING us!! We need some directions to play!
I've downloaded GoogleEarth, but I can't find any menus that take me to an Antipodal link. ...help...

 

[digitS']

That's a pretty nifty map, Ron. But, if we dug right thru the center of the earth, all of us in North America will find the same thing: we are out to sea !

North America, even counting all the islands and the land mass right down to the Panama Canal is 9.5 million square miles. The Indian Ocean is a little bigger at 28.4 million square miles. I'm afraid we'd all fit in and for most of us, Ducks included, we need to be really, really good swimmers 'cause we gotta make it to Desolation Island !!

The ancient Greeks had an understanding of latitude and climate. They recognized that the winter days are of different lengths and temperatures were different from north to south. Of course, they also knew that Mt. Olympus was a real cool place and for a hot time, Athens couldn't be beat!

Yeah, all those things make a difference to climate: latitude, elevation, land mass, ocean currents, etc. My "counterpoint" and our antipodes are just starting places, so to speak. It just gets us thinking about, "where in the heck is it a lot like here?" (Ron, don't be taking the easy answer to that question. I've been to Las Cruces. )

Now, that location in the mountains of northern Spain I was talking about being similar to my summer climate -- it has a "Continental Mediterranean climate." If you head uphill Ron, say - somewhere north of Albuquerque, you might find that same sort of summer weather.

And, another possibility for me is somewhere in northwestern Patagonia !!

Steve

 

[897tgigvib]

Hay! I like this topic!

Antipode; Ya take yer LONGITUDE and subtract 180. If ya get a number smaller than zero, subtract the rest from 360.
And then, ya take yer LATITUDE, and if it's called north, call it south. If south, call it north.

Do both those things and that's yer antipode.

Skip changing the Latitude, keep it the same instead, and that's that...what was that other thing called?...Counterpoint, not the music kind. The Geography kind.

What do I do now? Find similar climes?
Temperate mixed forest
mid latitude for day lengths
Grow season starts between 15 March and 8 June, often 25 April
Season ends 10 Oct to 29 Nov, often week after Halloween
Essentially no rain June to October, or longer, or rare thunderstorm in summer
Good winter rains
Snow occasionally to 14 inches, december to april, slight flurries 1 month before to 1 month after
Usual coldest temp right here 19, often 17 to 22, not rarely, 11 to 23, record supposedly -6, that was 20 miles away a hundred years ago.
Hot summers 15 July to 1 sep, typical high 95, almost every year. Above 108 is exceptional. Dry air.
Local dust happens along dirt roads in summer
Forest fires within 100 miles are typical, within 20 miles notable.
Summer lows in '60's, spikes in '70's
Grasslands are winter green, summer brown
Fall seems to begin during september
Winter seems to begin in November
Spring seems to often begin in April
Summer seems to begin between May 1st to June 10th.
"seems" is based on this gardener's feel, and is quite admittedly subjective.

I've heard this is called a Mediterranean clime.
50 Raven flying miles from the cold northern pacific currents that come from the north.
Real close to 2,000 feet elevation.
196 walking steps from moderate sized dammed reservoir type lake, garden 148 steps.
Lake tops off at 1,907 feet elevation, maybe 30 degree climb uphill
Lake has 38 mile perimeter when full, odd shape, said to be like a squashed spider.
Lake reduces to 30% during winter. Each year different though. 20 to 40
Higher the lake during winter, the milder my winter is. Kinda.

 

[digitS']

I'm probably unfit to play but I've taken the Tylenol.

Marshall, do you know your Sunset zone? Sunset hasn't gone international with them, I don't believe. Still, it sounds like you may be in Sunset zone 3 or 2. That's where I am and where some of the intermountain area resides.

Sunset zones for northern California (click)

It looks like higher elevations above Clear Lake are in zone 2 but I don't quite know your location.

Anyway, Sunset uses growing season along with winter cold information to establish their zones. I think that if they would take their calculations to Italy or Spain, they would find that there are zones 2 and 3 in those locations. It may be true right on across Eurasia at about that latitude, in mountain foothills.

I've become convinced that there is a gardener near Burgos, Spain with the exact same environment that I have ! By the way, it will be 63F in Burgos this afternoon, after an overnight low of 44. Saturday will have a high of 85 after a morning low of 46 . Burgos, there in the mountains of northern Spain, has what is called a "continental Mediterranean climate."

Steve

 

[ducks4you]

I'm coming back to this, when the garden season is over and I have time to digest it! Thanks for posting.