2016 Little Easy Bean Network - Gardeners Keeping Heirloom Beans From Extinction

[Blue-Jay]

A couple of questions.

How long after a pre-started bean shows a sprout should I expect it to break the soil surface? I check them twice a day and as soon as I see one showing a sprout I dig a shallow hole and cover it with loose dirt, maybe an inch deep. I don't firm the ground by mashing or patting but I pour water over it to settle the ground. I don't want to break anything by mashing. I realize I'm probably being impatient but it's been five days. When I very carefully dug down in there last night it looks like it is trying to come on up. These things become precious when you only have five seeds of that color and size to start with.

Second question. How do you handle them if you see mold start? These are the #32 which you said you only had 1 in 5 germinate in your test. Two of my three segregations are showing mold. I have several seeds in reserve but not that many. I gently rinsed them in a weak bleach solution which seems to have at least slowed the mold if not totally stopped it. They are swelling so they are absorbing moisture but I'm not seeing any signs of sprouting. Any suggestions.

They are pre-sprouting in a room I keep at or just above 80 degrees.

The presprouted beans might take a week to emerge. Because the seed is older the seedling figor might be a little lower but I think they will make it ok. Just be patient and let them do their thing.

On the mold question. I don't know if I had any seed that was moldy. Possibly they are just not going to germinate if they are begining to mold. What germination percentage are you getting on the seed.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I did not know beans had access to the internet. As soon as I complained on here about them not emerging they started emerging like crazy. I feel a lot better about that.

Germination rates.

Katusi Princess - twelve beans total. I got 5 out of 5 with seven more beans in reserve. I planted them on April 30 and all five have now emerged.

Malawi Pinto - twelve beans total. I got 3 out of 5 five with seven in reserve. I planed them ion April 30 and two of the three have emerged.

With both the above now that I have some emerged I will direct seed the rest and not pre-sprout them. I feel comfortable with those germination rates.

You mentioned you had 4 of 5 on #38 and 5/6 on #27. I direct seeded 10 seeds with 26 in reserve of #27 and direct seeded 6 seeds with 12 in reserve of #38. One #27 has emerged. I'll give these a few more days to see if I direct seed some more or try to pre-sprout some.

You had a 50% germination on #39. I split these into three groups.

#39A - eight beans total. I got 1 out of 3 with 5 in reserve. One of the three I tried was moldy. I just planted those and have started pre-sprouting more.

#39B - 16 beans total. I got 3 out of 6 with 10 in reserve. I planted these yesterday and started some more today to pre-sprout.

#39C - five beans total. I got 1 of 2 with 3 in reserve. I'm pre-sprouting the last three.

I feel pretty good about the 39's. But now for the problem child, #32. I initially split this into three groups but decided to try a couple of them as a fourth group. Those two are just a different shade in the sun. Hopefully we can talk about them this fall. You had a 1 out of 5 germination rate for #32.

#32A- 12 beans total. I have 0 out of 5 with 7 in reserve. This is a really moldy group. I've tossed one as it was obviously hopeless. That bleach rinse may have helped the other 4. We'll see. I started them April 30 in pre-sprout.

#32B - 12 beans total. I have 0 out of 5 with 7 in reserve. Only one has gone moldy, which I tossed. There is still hope for the others.

#32C - 17 beans total. I have 1 of 6 (it sprouted late today). About half have developed mold but I'm still trying with them.

#32 D - 2 beans total. I just started pre-sprout today.

I started pre-sprout today on #32 and #39. Each individual #32 is in a bag by itself so if mold develops on one it won't spread to the others. I did 2 beans in each bag for the #39's. Mold hasn't been a big problem with them. The rest I hope to direct seed, Kutasi Princess and Malawi Pinto for sure.

 

[baymule]

I planted my beans April 25th. They are coming up now. Russ sent me some early in the season, but we have had an unseasonably cool spring. Nights are still in the 50's. Go figure.
Globula- I got 9 beans and 8 are up.
Botosani Cyclops- I got 4 beans and only 1 is up so far.
Duilius- I got 8 beans and none are up.

At least this year's garden is shaping up to look like it is actually going to produce, unlike last year's total wipe out.

 

[Ridgerunner]

This may show my dilemma. This sprouted last night but you can see the mold on the bean. Also the sprout itself has a black spot on it. Not sure if that black spot's supposed to be there.

How do I stop them from molding long enough to get them to sprout? Should I plant this as is or should I try to do something about the mold?

 

[Blue-Jay]

@Ridgerunner

Looks like the sprouted ones are ready to go into the ground now. The moldy ones just try to gently rub off the mold with your finger. It's possible that the moldy ones aren't going to grow.
That is about all I can tell you.

 

[Hal]

My experience and understanding would indicate that seeds that mold up are not viable, never had a moldy one sprout I assume the embryo is dead and the mold is taking advantage of the moist conditions to grow and consume the food stores in the seed that are no longer going to be used by the embryo.
I certainly notice that with old or badly stored seed the number that do this is quite high.

 

[Pulsegleaner]

I've seen seeds mold up and grow at the same time. Usually it means that either the germinating seed got infected (a non viable seed got moldy and the mold transferred), or the germinating seed has some sections that are damaged that are letting the mold in (say the cots are broken inside the seed coat and the mold is attacking the broken bit that doesn't have the embryo. Such seed can germinate into a plant but it is often a race between the germination and the mold, and the resultant plant is often weaker (particularly in the second case, since the seed only has part of it's normal food supply.)

 

[Ridgerunner]

Thanks for those responses. My thoughts were that one was going moldy and infecting the others so I'm trying separate bags, plus I'll be very careful about clean hands when I'm checking them. It looked like some mold was originating where the embryo is and coming from inside the seed, originating inside. Hal' one of those sprouted but the sprout has some black on it. With most of the others it was just on the outside coating, not near the sprout. I think it was a secondary infection for most of them. I realize I only need one successful plant to save the seeds.

I wound up washing the mold off the seed coating with "secondary" infections and planting them, being very careful to avoid the actual sprout both when holding it with my fingers and when washing it. I used a weak bleach solution. By late yesterday I had 6 out of 16 sprout, at least one of each of the three segregations. I haven't checked this morning yet.

It seems every year at least one of my selections provides some drama. #32 is winning hands down in that department this year. I still feel really good about all the others and still have hopes for these. I only need one and I only need that one to produce a few seeds. How can you be a gardener and not be optimistic?

 

[VA_LongBean]

Yesterday was the first day in a while that the rain let up and I was finally free to get work done. I got about 40 T-posts set in my main garden and have used one 25 foot roll of chicken wire already (I need to buy a third roll as the second will not be enough to finish) to support viney stuff.

Planted today: Chocolate Paiute Tepary (10 of 20 seeds), Botosani Cyclops (4 of 7), Passage to India (4 of 8), and Orange Paiute Tepary (10 of 20 seeds). If I have losses there will still be enough to fill in/try again, though I'm hoping for good success starting this late in VA. All seeds are spaced about 8 inches apart (hang loose dudes!) since that's how far I can spread my thumb and pinky. I've read that pole beans really like 1 foot to 16 inches spacing, but I just don't have that much room to spare.

I'll have to relocate my walking onions to make more room in a prime spot along the proposed trellises for beans and cukes, melons, etc. Hoping to get to taste the beans I grew for @Bluejay77 last year.

 

[aftermidnight]

@Ridgerunner , When working with old seed it's always a tossup but it gives me a sense of satisfaction when I succeed . Luckily I haven't had the mold problem, what I've done especially with old (special) seed is germinate in the damp paper towel method, after 3 days if none have sprouted I gently rinse the seed in clean water, the paper towel too and do this every day until the seed either germinates or it's presumed dead (starts to smell bad). At times this has taken more than a week, I think the longest for me was near 2 weeks.
If I saw mold forming on the outside of the seed coat and the seed itself HAS started to swell, plumped up, I think I'd dip my fingers in a weak bleach solution just like you have done and wipe the mold off and plant in a sterile medium. If or when the cotyledon pops through and part of the seed coat is still on I gently pick it off and discard. The air circulation in my greenhouse is pretty good as I have a fan running 24/7, I think that helps a lot.
I've had seed with damaged cotyledons grow into decent plants but also like now one of my (#45's) seed germinated fine, coty's fine and now planted out, but, that's about it, what is emerging now is very weak and spindly and seems stunted so I'll wait a day or two and if it doesn't smarten up I'll discard it. Of the 20 #45's I started, one did not germinate, one a slug or snail got before I got the lead out and covered them at night. This leaves me with 18, now this third one might get pulled. Luckily others with the same seed coat colors as these three are doing fine so all is not lost. Best of luck.

Annette