2018 Little Easy Bean Network - Join Us In Saving Amazing Heirloom Beans

[Michael Lusk]

Bean drying question...I've had pretty good luck this year with my beans and was able to get lots of perfect / near perfect seed from many of the plants. I'm running into an issue now and would appreciate some advice.

I've got several beans where there are still some really good pods on the plants that aren't anywhere close to being dry. Problem is that several of the pods appear to be starting to turn black rather than drying properly - a couple I checked seem to have actually sprouted in the pod. On the same plant there are many pods that are still green. I'm guessing this is due to the rains / cooler weather we had recently but I haven't really encountered this before.

I'd hate to see these seeds go bad, but I think even though they seem mature I don't think they're dry enough to pick. Would yanking the plants help? Any suggestions?

Thanks in advance for the help!

 

[flowerbug]

@Decoy1 my other comment about similar beans is that in my own experiences i've been getting plenty of crosses that look very much like other beans i've seen in circulation.

without having a full genetic sequence of all of them i'd not really know if they're identical or not or what the parentage. most of the varieties i've grow the past 10yrs i have records of the sources. most of them i've grown enough that if they were going to have crosses in the seeds before i got them i'd have seen it years previously so i'm sure that most of the crosses i've had since are from the bees or even some mutations.


i guess i'll just write some things here as i'm thinking of them as notes from this season (ramble zone ahead )...

my experience this year so far is that Dappled Gray gave a rather huge bean that looks like a cross with a pinto. so i've got perhaps two branches now going of those. since this is the first year i've grown those that out-cross didn't happen here, but i don't know where Russ got the seeds or if he grew them out or ... since i like the pattern of the DG originals i won't be planting the odd cross/selection again - one thing for sure is that they're impressive and productive as a dry bean. and the good news is that they were a productive large bean compared to the many other larger beans here. i'll keep growing some of them each season and watch for crosses with beans i normally grow...

my more usual problem with large beans in our heat/soils is that they just don't finish very well. either they're empty seeds/pods or the seed coat isn't closed up all the way or ... i had that problem this year with Old Black Coco and Early Warwick and even the Pinto beans (of all the beans i've grown my own versions of Pinto beans have always been pretty reliable but i didn't plant any this season thinking i wanted to keep the network Pinto bean line apart from my own). i have some seeds from all of them, but they're not the best seeds i've grown by far.

in a neighboring garden (the garden that flooded - i posted pictures) i had such excellent production from some plants that normally struggle that i'm now pretty sure it has a lot to do with the soil quality. some beautiful healthy seeds from those plants. even some old cranberry type beans i'd not grown for years (Etna) did really well in there.

alas i did not plant any of the other three mentioned above in that garden - it was the last garden inside the fence that i planted and i'd not even planned on putting beans in there but the strawberry plants i transplanted last fall didn't survive the winter so i had the space - next year i'll put some beans in there again.

and then from the other extreme i think the Fort Portal Jade beans i planted got so overgrown by the surrounding plants that they didn't have much of a chance no matter which garden i put them in. soil could have been too rich for them or too much rain or ... i did get some seeds from them to try again next year. perhaps they'll adapt to my conditions and i'll plant them with more of their own space next time. they said semi-runner, but they didn't run much for me.

and the Yellow Longs touted as pole beans, barely made it above 1ft tall, they were overgrown by everything around them but they did finish early enough i have some seeds from them. as they're a white/light yellow bean and not easy to shell out i doubt i'll grow them again for my own production uses, but i'll save a few seeds and pass along the rest back to Russ.

my many experimental plantings, some did great and continued the line or verified my thoughts of them (early, semi-runner, etc.) so that was fun, but some others i don't think i've seen any as i've shelled so far. i know for a fact that some beans didn't even sprout so i don't expect to see any of those...

 

[flowerbug]

Bean drying question...I've had pretty good luck this year with my beans and was able to get lots of perfect / near perfect seed from many of the plants. I'm running into an issue now and would appreciate some advice.

I've got several beans where there are still some really good pods on the plants that aren't anywhere close to being dry. Problem is that several of the pods appear to be starting to turn black rather than drying properly - a couple I checked seem to have actually sprouted in the pod. On the same plant there are many pods that are still green. I'm guessing this is due to the rains / cooler weather we had recently but I haven't really encountered this before.

I'd hate to see these seeds go bad, but I think even though they seem mature I don't think they're dry enough to pick. Would yanking the plants help? Any suggestions?

Thanks in advance for the help!

always an issue here with later beans. i let the plants go as long as possible in the ground up until there are calls for frosts/freezing and then the last few if i want to save seeds from them i'll pull and leave the beans on the plant and knock the dirt off the roots and hang them upside down to finish.

if the question is seeds for saving, once the pods are fully plumped up and the beans inside are fully formed they aren't going to get any more nutrition from the plant. you can check this by opening a few pods and looking at the connection between the pod and the bean. if it is dry and hard enough a connection you can be sure there is nothing more going through there. so drying and shelling them out one way vs. another is a matter of labor or space saving for me. rescueing from frost and mold is what i have to do some checking today.

in many cases i will shell the beans out and dry them apart from the pods just because it takes much less space and for some it's much easier to shell them at some stages than others (i've found a few great beans this season where at limp stage the beans just kinda fall right out of the pods very nicely - if left gone further they can shatter and fly all over).

it's been a nicer year this year as compared to last year as far as the beans go.

 

[flowerbug]

I use a straw to suck the air out of zip locks, stick straw in one end zip shut and suck the air out, pull out straw and close quickly.

or a swizzle stick/straw

 

[aftermidnight]

View attachment 28544 Thank you to everyone who shared their seed-saving experiences and thoughts. It’s interesting that several regimes can work, and to different extents. My collection is in its infancy and for the next year or so I hope to grow on about half of my stock so longer-term ideal storage can develop as my stock becomes larger.
On a different topic, I’m wondering whether there are many beans in circulation which have different names but are actually the same variety. I have two which look very similar - Major Cook and Mrs Fortune’s. I haven’t closely observed the growth habit and realise the similarities could be superficial but it raised the general point for me of how far there are duplicate varieties in circulation.
I took a photo with the original seeds of the two varieties. Helpfully informed by the last few contributions - many thanks - I now realise that oxidation has been at work on the original seeds which have simply been stored in paper packets.

@Decoy1 I have both of these beans in my collection but haven't grown them in a few years. There are so many beans that look alike and seed that look identical but they are different. One observation of mine, the pod shape is different, Major Cook's being more curved, Mrs. Fortune's straighter.

I've tried to keep a picture record of seed when bought or traded, flower, pod and freshly dried seed of all I grow, I've even borrowed pictures for my album until I can replace with one of my own. What can I say, life gets in the way and haven't always followed through with this plan so although I have a lot of pictures, I don't have a complete record of all stages on most of them.

I have seed from a half a dozen or so varieties you can't tell them apart but when grown out the pods are completely different. The seed coat pattern of Eye of the Goat for instance I have at least 4 varieties where the seed looks identical.
Have your read Daughter of the Soil's review on Major Cook's http://daughterofthesoil.blogspot.com/search/label/French beans scroll down to Mrs Fortune.

Another review...
http://daughterofthesoil.blogspot.com/2007/01/heritage-vegetable-review-french-bean.html

Annette

 

[flowerbug]

Like @aftermidnight and @Bluejay77 , I take advantage of dry winter air to dry my beans naturally to a proper moisture level for storage. Small index cards follow all lots of seed from harvest, to processing, to storage. After shelling, the beans (along with all my other saved seeds) remain on cross-stacked cafeteria trays until I start getting "sweater lightning", which has proven to be a pretty good non-scientific indicator of low humidity. At that point the beans get cleaned, sorted for culls, and weighed.
...

i don't use index cards to mark batches, but i chop up scrap paper into little squares so i can write the garden or bean name on it (or number/version if i have that) or some abbreviation so i know what i'm dealing with. i put those squares in the bags as i go out to pick a garden and then as they dry or get sorted i'll carry that tag along with the batch until they're fully dried and for the final sorting (mid-winter - i'm usually too busy with fall projects until the snow starts flying anyways). i like having this to do in the winter time too. it's my stone-picking off the beach kind of OCD thing i like to do and is probably the main reason i grow beans. all the colors/shapes and tactile feedback when the outside world is gray/white...

at times the marker gets lost but i can tell from the bean what it is or what garden it came from or it is a bulk bean and it doesn't matter where it ends up (we eat those they all come out brown... hahaha...)

 

[aftermidnight]

I don't use scraps of paper, they don't fare well in a room with a fan on, I use masking tape in the bottom of my drying baskets.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Bean drying question...I've had pretty good luck this year with my beans and was able to get lots of perfect / near perfect seed from many of the plants. I'm running into an issue now and would appreciate some advice.

I've got several beans where there are still some really good pods on the plants that aren't anywhere close to being dry. Problem is that several of the pods appear to be starting to turn black rather than drying properly - a couple I checked seem to have actually sprouted in the pod. On the same plant there are many pods that are still green. I'm guessing this is due to the rains / cooler weather we had recently but I haven't really encountered this before.

I'd hate to see these seeds go bad, but I think even though they seem mature I don't think they're dry enough to pick. Would yanking the plants help? Any suggestions?

Thanks in advance for the help!

I think the sprouting is due to the rains, not the cooler weather. Bush beans are probably worse as the pods may touch the ground or have less air circulation down there so they stay wetter longer. If they are sprouting they are mature enough to pick and dry. When I have beans getting ready and a prediction of rain I try to go out and pick every pod that has started drying, even if they are just starting to turn yellow or whatever color that variety changes to. Certainly anything leathery. Those pods go in my workshop to dry before I hull them. I've even been known to put a fan on them to help immediately get them dry. I want to give them every chance I can to absorb as many nutrients as they can before I hull them, whether it helps or not.

When you hull those beans you may find that the color has not fully matured. If they dry plump they should still sprout and grow, the genetics should be right, but those are not the ones I save to grow if I have other better ones. Sometimes if that is all you have you may want to try them again next year. They are good to eat.

If you see tan/brown sections on them that means they have started to decay. Drying them may have stopped the decay but I toss those.

I have had some plants filled with beans but not quite mature enough to pick when a frost is forecast. I've been known to break off branches or even the entire plant and hang that protected from frost and rain with the roots on top to let them finish drying. Again the colors may not be perfect but you can often get viable seeds this way.

 

[aftermidnight]

UPDATE: on Ralph's Italian Heirloom pole bean my (Only the Lonely) I've posted elsewhere about this. In a nutshell I couldn't get any of my seed to germinate until low and behold I found one lone bean still in the bottom of the packet, it actually germinated. Planted late surrounded by a fortress it grew, then the hot weather came it grew but didn't flower or set pods until sometime in August. Lots of pods now and still flowering.


It's going to be iffy if I can get seed, a few of the pods are swelling with seed but not at a stage where they can be picked. This vine has gone crazy, it branched and wound its way on my pergola among a wisteria, it topped it's 8ft. pole, reached out and over a couple of feet and grabbed on on to the magnolia tree, topped that and is now heading up into our Robinia tree. It has to be 20ft. or more up now and still reaching.

Not the best pic but if you look hard you can see a few pods and leaves way up there, that 2x4 bottom of pic is about the 5-6 ft. level of the pole. Yesterday we put an umbrella over a few pods we could reach in hopes of keeping rain and frost off them. I believe Victory Seed may be planning to grow this one again in 2020 but until then wish me luck this one may be the only one in town. In the end when the weather really turns we'll TRY to pull the vine and hang it in the greenhouse to dry down. Oh the adventures of a bean grower .

Annette

 

[Blue-Jay]

Bean drying question...I've had pretty good luck this year with my beans and was able to get lots of perfect / near perfect seed from many of the plants. I'm running into an issue now and would appreciate some advice.

Sounds like you have had a lot of rain like a lot of us. Your green pods on the plants are probably very full with seed. That seed is mature enough to grow but really needs to dry to be able to store it for another season. It would be good to uproot the plants and hang them inside your garage and just give them time to dry out. Some of the pods might take a month to do so. Leaving plants near wet soil only serves to allow moisture to dry off the soil and penetrate plants and especially seed and spoil them. Once they are mature enough in a wet season I pull plants and hang them on poles that I have screwed in long 3 inche screws. They dry well this way being away from the ground. The rain doesn't even bother them. The action of the wind and sun drys them off quickly. One thing I do adivse in take a hand pruner and clip off all the leaves. Leaves can collect moisture on a rainy day and spoil pods that lay against them. If you hang your plants inside your garage or some sort of building clipping off the leaves also really helps to facilitate air flowing around the pods and really puts the stop to a lot of mess that occurs after the leaves become dehydrated and crisp.

Photos of what I was doing with my bush and semi runner bean plants earlier this month when we were getting too much rain. Click on the photos and they enlarge quite a bit giving a really good look at things.

Look how nice the pods look drying away from damp soil. Plus the beans inside are just outstanding looking.

My poles are 1 x 2 furing stripes cut to 80 inches long with a steep tapering point cut on one end with my jigsaw to make driving them into the ground with my carpenters hammer easier. I've screwed in near the top of the poles 3 inch wood screws, and another set a little futher down the pole. The top screws alow me to hang plants about 6 feet off the ground, and the second set of screws gives me about 3 feet off the ground. Almost 2 meters and 1 meter for any overseas people who don't use U.S. measurements