2021 Little Easy Bean Network - Bean Lovers Come Discover Something New !

[BeanWonderin]

Thank you all for contributing such interesting and informative content here. Do you know last year it was end of July before we got to page 30 in this thread? Maybe this will be a record year for beans!

I would like to know if anyone has a trick for getting beans to germinate. I’ve been testing germination (beans and corn, mostly) and I cannot get my Pawnee beans to germinate well. I get maybe one out of ten.

I figure something must have happened to these when I grew them or in storage, but haven't noticed this with my other beans. These are beans I grew last in 2019.

My standard test is to place 10 beans in a damp paper towel inside a zipper lock bag. I've run three tests on Pawnee this year with only one or two germination each time. The ones that don't germinate get moldy.

Here are a few things I've tried. I'd like your thoughts or ideas for anything else to try.

1. I've tried different temperatures. Probably mid 60's and mid 70's Fahrenheit. Suzanne Ashworth lists 60-85 deg F as the germination range for common beans in Seed to Seed. I did not notice a difference.
2. I've tried pre-soaking in water for 5-10 minutes. My standard method is to start with the beans dry, but thought I might get a head start this way. It did not seen to make a difference.
3. I tried pre-soaking in a bleach water solution for 5-10 minutes then rinsed. Some of the beans wrinkled a bit and a few turned yellow when I took them out of the solution. This batch did not mold, but none of them really germinated. One looked like it was close.

It was actually the Pawnee bean that helped me find your website, @Bluejay77, and then this forum - thanks! We've grown Pawnee several years. They have grown well for us and produced a good harvest, plus we like cooking with them. I don't know where we got the original seed and it doesn't look like anyone has carried it the last couple years - maybe Seeds of Change? At any rate, we hope to grow it again.

One thought I had is that I could pre-germinate a bunch prior to planting in the garden so I don't end up with a patchy planting. I have a few hundred grams of seed, so I could still get a harvest - certainly enough to save the seed. But I would like to learn how to make sure my seed retains viability better next time.

 

[Blue-Jay]

It was actually the Pawnee bean that helped me find your website, @Bluejay77, and then this forum - thanks! We've grown Pawnee several years. They have grown well for us and produced a good harvest, plus we like cooking with them. I don't know where we got the original seed and it doesn't look like anyone has carried it the last couple years - maybe Seeds of Change? At any rate, we hope to grow it again.

First of all @BeanWonderin. Welcome to our bean family. Always good to have more bean people here.

I am falbbergasted that your Pawnee is not germinating. Especially since your seed is not old. When I do a germination test I do not mess with bleach. I do what you probably do most of the time using just moist paper towels water and quart size ziploc baggies. It sounds like something could have happened to your seed. Were they subjected to a frost before you harvested pods that might still have been a bit moist. Did you put them in a freezer when they might have been too moist still. Your seed looks well filled out so it doesn't look like your plants went through any water stress.

You can get Pawnee from me. I'm the originator of this bean. First listed it the SSE yearbook in 1982. The seed mother of this bean is a solid brown bush bean called Brown Kidney. Brown Kidney has pods that are round and look like a snap bean. This is the same Pawnee that is sold by a few Canadian seed companies. Probably has been sold by seed sellers on Ebay. Was once sold by Terrior Seeds here in Woodstock, Illinois before they moved to Arizona. The bean has appeared in photos in Mother Earth News magazine. It is mentioned in a gardening book by William Woys Weaver the food historian. Give me your address by emailing me at upadam@comcast.net and I'll send you some Pawnee. I don't know how many growers of this bean know this but Pawnee is soil sensitive and in some soils will turn out almost all solid brown.

The photo below is my 2014 Pawnee crop when I found a soil here in the county where I live that would make Pawnee display a lot of white. I think I have found another spot where Pawnee will look like this again and am going to grow it there this summer.

 

[heirloomgal]

Now that we are on the topic of successfully germinating bean seeds, I'm wondering what people's thoughts are on early bean seeding in starter pots. I'd really like to a get a jump start this year on the pole beans I'll be growing, to try to be as certain as possible of a fully matured seed harvest (network beans!). I tried last year some 3 week early starts, and it was only partly successful. I think in my attempt to be sure the bean buried in the seed starter mix was moistened I may have overdid it with the watering in. Whatever the case, some rotted. The ones that did sprout really did seem to get a head start though, and had climbed quite high up my trellis before the others were even starting to grab on. Much of that early planted seed was older though. I'm not sure how much of what did fail was because of the older seed, or if starting in pots generally makes bean seeds more likely to rot.

Starting beans early in this way seldom comes up in gardening books. I wonder if this may be because there is a risk of transplant shock. I'm just trying to think of all the angles that would help ensure the most successful dry bean harvest, as it's the pole types that seem to take the longest.

 

[PhilaGardener]

@heirloomgal , I've had good luck getting a jump on the season by starting seeds indoors and hardening off before planting in the garden, so I encourage you to try again!

If you are concerned about germination issues, start on paper towels in plastic bags, like @Bluejay77 described for germination tests, and then gently transfer to mix once the root tip emerges.

 

[Zeedman]

Now that we are on the topic of successfully germinating bean seeds, I'm wondering what people's thoughts are on early bean seeding in starter pots. I'd really like to a get a jump start this year on the pole beans I'll be growing, to try to be as certain as possible of a fully matured seed harvest (network beans!). I tried last year some 3 week early starts, and it was only partly successful. I think in my attempt to be sure the bean buried in the seed starter mix was moistened I may have overdid it with the watering in. Whatever the case, some rotted. The ones that did sprout really did seem to get a head start though, and had climbed quite high up my trellis before the others were even starting to grab on. Much of that early planted seed was older though. I'm not sure how much of what did fail was because of the older seed, or if starting in pots generally makes bean seeds more likely to rot.

Starting beans early in this way seldom comes up in gardening books. I wonder if this may be because there is a risk of transplant shock. I'm just trying to think of all the angles that would help ensure the most successful dry bean harvest, as it's the pole types that seem to take the longest.

A good question, and for the right reason. Starting beans as transplants is seldom discussed in garden books, because beans generally do well when direct seeded. However, transplants can be helpful if: you have very short seasons; cool and/or wet soil conditions; are using old (or rare) seed; or growing long-DTM varieties which are a stretch for the growing season. And for seed saving, transplants can make the difference between failure, and a good seed harvest - especially for pole beans, which tend to have longer DTM's. Gardeners at large are generally not concerned with saving bean seed... but there is a lot of interest & experience among those on this forum.

Starting beans in pots gives you more control over conditions, so it should result in better germination - especially for old seed. You can use soil-less seed starter, sterile water, warmer temperatures, and greater control of soil moisture. You can also use a small amount of high-N liquid fertilizer (either organic or not) which will greatly increase the germination rate of old seed. (Germinating old seed is a separate - but worthwhile - topic.)

All of my beans are planned for a 5-year rotation, and bad weather can delay that even further... so I am usually planting old to very old seed. Last year's beans ranged from 2012-2015 seed - and one soybean from 2010. Last year was also the first time in about 10 years that I did not start all of my beans as transplants - and the results were less than satisfactory. Any failure pushes back the whole schedule, and runs the risk of beans dying in storage - so for me, bean transplants are a necessity. If soil & weather conditions are poor at planting time, I can start beans as transplants; provided that they go into the garden within about 3 weeks, the DTM will be close to normal. Even if soil conditions were perfect for direct seeding, I would still start some beans in pots, as backups for open spots in the row, or to replace plants destroyed by weather, pests, or diseases. That practice has often saved a seed crop which would otherwise have failed (such as when squirrels dug up a whole row just as they were germinating).

IMO bean transplants have the best results when using a method which disturbs the roots as little as possible, such as soil blocks, paper pots, or peat pots/strips. I use peat strips, with Pro-mix or similar seed starter. Smaller pots (50's) for the smaller Vigna beans, 32's for most larger beans, and 3" pots for the largest limas & runner beans. To aid root penetration (one of the problems often cited with peat pots) I clean out the central hole, and make several additional holes in the bottom of each pot using an ice pick. The time taken to make those extra holes really pays off, in extra roots, and shortened recovery time after transplanting.

It can be helpful to place a thin layer of sand in the tray under the pots, which will minimize root pruning, and act as a water reservoir. After planting, I add enough water to thoroughly soak the soil & pots (usually about 3 quarts per tray more or less) and let them soak over night. I use sterile water for this, and if fertilizer will be used, it is added only at this step. For organic fertilizers (such as seaweed) I recommend boiling the solution to sterilize it. After soaking over night, I pour off any excess water; if there is no excess, then the pots may not be fully soaked. Once drained, the trays are transferred to a warm location - for old or weak seeds, 75-80 F. degrees if possible. Add water only if the soil begins to dry out. When germination begins, the beans should be moved to strong light immediately, or they will quickly become leggy... preferably into direct sunlight. The seedlings will tolerate cooler temperatures once germinated, so I usually move them into a solar greenhouse. The beans should be planted in the garden when they are strong, up to the point where they have their first true leaf; much beyond that, and they are likely to be root bound, and stunted to some degree.

If there was sand in the tray below the pots, there will be healthy roots buried there (especially if there were extra holes in the pots). If carefully removed & watered in before those roots dry out, transplant shock will be greatly reduced or eliminated, and the plants will begin growing almost immediately.

 

[Artorius]

@heirloomgal
I grow all my beans from seedlings. I start at the end of April so I can be ready on May 15th. This is a magical date for gardeners in Poland. After it, the threat of frosts is minimal.
As for the rest, Zeedman has written everything.

 

[Decoy1]

The photo below is my 2014 Pawnee crop when I found a soil here in the county where I live that would make Pawnee display a lot of white. I think I have found another spot where Pawnee will look like this again and am going to grow it there this summer.

I think my soil in England tends to bring out the white in beans quite well. I grew Pawnee this year and the seed produced has a good amount of white. I could have sent some, Russ, had I known it’s one which varies quite a lot.

But actually I like the heavier speckling in your 2014 crop.

 

[BeanWonderin]

First of all @BeanWonderin. Welcome to our bean family. Always good to have more bean people here.

I am falbbergasted that your Pawnee is not germinating. Especially since your seed is not old. When I do a germination test I do not mess with bleach. I do what you probably do most of the time using just moist paper towels water and quart size ziploc baggies. It sounds like something could have happened to your seed. Were they subjected to a frost before you harvested pods that might still have been a bit moist. Did you put them in a freezer when they might have been too moist still. Your seed looks well filled out so it doesn't look like your plants went through any water stress.

You can get Pawnee from me. I'm the originator of this bean. First listed it the SSE yearbook in 1982. The seed mother of this bean is a solid brown bush bean called Brown Kidney. Brown Kidney has pods that are round and look like a snap bean. This is the same Pawnee that is sold by a few Canadian seed companies. Probably has been sold by seed sellers on Ebay. Was once sold by Terrior Seeds here in Woodstock, Illinois before they moved to Arizona. The bean has appeared in photos in Mother Earth News magazine. It is mentioned in a gardening book by William Woys Weaver the food historian. Give me your address by emailing me at upadam@comcast.net and I'll send you some Pawnee. I don't know how many growers of this bean know this but Pawnee is soil sensitive and in some soils will turn out almost all solid brown.

The photo below is my 2014 Pawnee crop when I found a soil here in the county where I live that would make Pawnee display a lot of white. I think I have found another spot where Pawnee will look like this again and am going to grow it there this summer.

View attachment 39376

Thank you much, @Bluejay77. It's certainly possible that the beans had some freeze damage - we're often fighting wet weather and snow/frost late in the season. Unfortunately I didn't keep good notes during harvest so can't say for sure. The bleach was just a what-if experiment since I was getting moldy beans, but I didn't really expect it to work.

Thank you for the background on Pawnee and for offering seed. I'll send you an email. I was thinking of growing out a few beans for the network as well.

 

[Ridgerunner]

My standard test is to place 10 beans in a damp paper towel inside a zipper lock bag. I've run three tests on Pawnee this year with only one or two germination each time. The ones that don't germinate get moldy.

The year I got the Will Bonsall outcrosses from Russ I tried this method to start the seeds. We did not know how old they were so I tried to pre-sprout for your reasons, so I would not have a lot of holes in the garden from unsprouted seeds. I hoped to better control starting conditions too, especially warmth. The soil should have been warm enough but a cool wet spell with cold rain would not make it ideal. I've had problems with fresh seeds in those conditions. In Arkansas, length of the growing season was not something I worried about.

I put them in a damp paper towel inside a small zip-loc bag, can't remember if it was a quart or sandwich size. I did not zip the bag closed. I read somewhere you are not supposed to close them but I don't remember the reason why. As the paper towel dried out I'd dampen it again.

I soon started checking those seeds every day. As soon as one showed signs of sprouting I'd gently plant it in the ground, maybe an inch deep. They grew OK. My understanding is that the first hair roots are really delicate, you don't want to disturb them once they start forming so get it in the ground fast. It's labor intensive checking every day, I did not want to skip a day for sure. I don't know if I got better germination this way or not, but they did grow and produce.

I ran into mold too, some seeds more than others. I got four different packets of those outcrosses from Russ. In two of those I could easily separate the beans into different colors or patterns, so I did. And I tried sprouting them by color/pattern in their own zip-loc bag. That was 2016 and I can still remember that the 32's were the big problem. The 32-B bag was OK but mold started in the 32-A bag. Others had problems too but not like the 32-A's.

I think what happened is that once the mold started it spread to the rest of the beans in that zip-loc. I tried to be clean when I was checking those bags but mold spores can be easily spread. After a while mold problems were everywhere. I tried to be patient with those beans since I really wanted them to sprout but after a while the mold took over. If I had to do it again I'd have split those beans into more zip-locs because of the mold and sterilized my hands more often. I think pre-sprouting them did contribute to the mold problem.

My records are a bit sketchy but I think I had 12 of those 32-A's. I only got two to sprout and grow. One made a bush bean that has never been productive. The other made a pole bean that was productive but is still segregating every time I grow it. What's a long bean post without a photo. This is the beans I got off of that one pole, I counted over 500 beans. When I say they did grow and produce I meant it, at least for some of them.

 

[heirloomgal]

Thank you! That is really, really great help. So awesome to know that it actually is a good way to help ensure a dried bean crop. I've learned more in the past two months on this forum, than I have in probably the last five years gardening!! I am definitely going to start all my pole beans in pots then. I had no idea!

Got some bean mail today, a new one I'm trying called 'Ferris Heirloom'. I got it from a seed company in Manitoba who got it from local lady, who I think brought it from Holland at some point. I find they look like yogurt covered raisins. I picked out the ones that had a little more pink in them, some have only the faintest pink specks. I'm going to select for the pinker ones.