2021 Little Easy Bean Network - Bean Lovers Come Discover Something New !

[flowerbug]

Was doing some research on my Chuck Norris' Outlaw bean, and the company I bought it from calls it a hybrid bean. I didn't think beans (or peas for that matter) were ever sold as hybrids, that a hybrid bean is an exception to the rule and happens occasionally as a crossed bean. Is it possible this was a packet error? I've seen that before, though not often. I'm not sure if this bean would be considered 'commercial' but it is sold by one of our bigger seed companies, not sure what to think on this.

hybrid vigor is certainly a thing that happens and so some seed companies will go through the effort of crossing and harvesting such seeds for sale. i'm not personally into that sort of thing at all so i don't follow it nor do i seek hybrids to grow.

i think i have plenty enough fun with heirlooms and the things that have been happening with them for me to really get into that. i am still trying to figure out if i ever want to do any specific crosses manually instead of letting the bees and beans all sort it out themselves. i instead have been very happy to be a selective observer and nudger of nature. and i'm also very sure i've got a pretty good eye for finding odd things because i actually look at each of them (often multiple times). this sort of handling and effort probably would not work well at any kind of mass scale.

 

[heirloomgal]

hybrid vigor is certainly a thing that happens and so some seed companies will go through the effort of crossing and harvesting such seeds for sale. i'm not personally into that sort of thing at all so i don't follow it nor do i seek hybrids to grow.

i think i have plenty enough fun with heirlooms and the things that have been happening with them for me to really get into that. i am still trying to figure out if i ever want to do any specific crosses manually instead of letting the bees and beans all sort it out themselves. i instead have been very happy to be a selective observer and nudger of nature. and i'm also very sure i've got a pretty good eye for finding odd things because i actually look at each of them (often multiple times). this sort of handling and effort probably would not work well at any kind of mass scale.

@flowerbug The strange thing is, the price was just as inexpensive as other OP beans, 1.99 I think. Often when seed is hybrid, it costs more. With tomatoes it's really a lot more. Do you know the name of any hybrid beans in circulation, or that have been in circulation? I'm curious to check this out. I had no idea it was possible!

 

[Zeedman]

Was doing some research on my Chuck Norris' Outlaw bean, and the company I bought it from calls it a hybrid bean. I didn't think beans (or peas for that matter) were ever sold as hybrids, that a hybrid bean is an exception to the rule and happens occasionally as a crossed bean. Is it possible this was a packet error? I've seen that before, though not often. I'm not sure if this bean would be considered 'commercial' but it is sold by one of our bigger seed companies, not sure what to think on this.

Beans may have started as hybrids during the breeding process, but they should all be stable OP varieties by the time they are sold commercially. Unless someone has come up with a revolutionary new method for making hybrid bean seed in quantity, the amount of seed produced per pollination is too low to ever make hybrid bean seed feasible. A few times I've seen seed companies provide the lineage of a new bean & erroneously state that the new variety was a "hybrid". If Outlaw is stable, that is probably the case here - as witnessed by the low price.

 

[Artorius]

Sometimes the indication on the packaging that a variety is a hybrid is a deliberate procedure used by companies. All this in order not to collect your own seeds, but buy them again in the next season. I grew several tomato hybrids, collected seeds from them and sowed them. In the following years, the vast majority of them repeated all the varietal traits.
I have not grown bean hybrids so far and I have not seen them in Polish stores.

 

[Blue-Jay]

Beans like tomatoes are self polinating. If you cross two different tomato varieties you have a hybrid and likewise with a bean cross you have a hybrid but only for one grow out. Once the hybrid self polinates and seed is saved the new seed is not a hybrid. Wheather the next resulting generation will produce stable true breeding types is yet to be discovered by repeated grow outs. I don't know how this seed company knew it had a hybrid bean. Even deliberate crossing and introducing pollen from one bean variety to another doesn't always result in a successful cross and new hybrid which the hybrid lasts as I said before, for only one grow out. I've written to a dry bean breeder at the univeristy of North Dakota from time to time and when he does a bean cross. He takes a seed from pods he had marked that he crossed and sprouts them. Then takes a tissue sample from the sprouted seed to see if there is any DNA present from the plant he used as a male parent. I would think that to produce saleable amounts of hybrid seed from beans would be cost prohibitive since most bean pods produce around a half dozen seeds. Look how many seeds can be produced by crossing just one tomato blossom. The resulting fruit can produce probably 150 to 200 hybrid seeds. I would think your hybrid bean is more than likely a sales gimmick.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Was doing some research on my Chuck Norris' Outlaw bean, and the company I bought it from calls it a hybrid bean.

What company was that? I could not find it. If it is that big of a company it should have a website but maybe that bean is not on it.

 

[Pulsegleaner]

Beans like tomatoes are self polinating. If you cross two different tomato varieties you have a hybrid and likewise with a bean cross you have a hybrid but only for one grow out. Once the hybrid self polinates and seed is saved the new seed is not a hybrid. Wheather the next resulting generation will produce stable true breeding types is yet to be discovered by repeated grow outs. I don't know how this seed company knew it had a hybrid bean. Even deliberate crossing and introducing pollen from one bean variety to another doesn't always result in a successful cross and new hybrid which the hybrid lasts as I said before, for only one grow out. I've written to a dry bean breeder at the univeristy of North Dakota from time to time and when he does a bean cross. He takes a seed from pods he had marked that he crossed and sprouts them. Then takes a tissue sample from the sprouted seed to see if there is any DNA present from the plant he used as a male parent. I would think that to produce saleable amounts of hybrid seed from beans would be cost prohibitive since most bean pods produce around a half dozen seeds. Look how many seeds can be produced by crossing just one tomato blossom. The resulting fruit can produce probably 150 to 200 hybrid seeds. I would think your hybrid bean is more than likely a sales gimmick.

To your knowledge, does this apply to cowpeas as well? I'm just thinking of back when I used to get my cowpeas out of the bean mix I would buy at the Korean grocery store (though it was grown in China).

The appearance of those cow peas sure LOOKED like what one would expect of a cross (or more accurately of a cross breaking down). The commonest coat color was a mottled eye. But some had a solid brown eye, and some were mottled all over (or mottled with a white patch on one end). It always LOOKED like the browns and the mottled all overs were ancestors, and the (commonest) mottled eyes were the result of a cross.

Though all seem to come true to themselves when planted, so maybe there is/was another explanation)

 

[HmooseK]

Thought it worth mentioning in case someone grows a tender heirloom. According to Bill Best who is an authority on beans, he says conventional beans have been bred with a “tough” gene for ease of picking And to keep those as far away from your heirlooms as possible.

just food for thought.

 

[Blue-Jay]

Beans may have started as hybrids during the breeding process, but they should all be stable OP varieties by the time they are sold commercially. Unless someone has come up with a revolutionary new method for making hybrid bean seed in quantity, the amount of seed produced per pollination is too low to ever make hybrid bean seed feasible. A few times I've seen seed companies provide the lineage of a new bean & erroneously state that the new variety was a "hybrid". If Outlaw is stable, that is probably the case here - as witnessed by the low price.

To your knowledge, does this apply to cowpeas as well? I'm just thinking of back when I used to get my cowpeas out of the bean mix I would buy at the Korean grocery store (though it was grown in China).

Cowpeas are also self pollinating plants. I would assume the same rules would apply to them as it would to beans.

 

[Zeedman]

Thought it worth mentioning in case someone grows a tender heirloom. According to Bill Best who is an authority on beans, he says conventional beans have been bred with a “tough” gene for ease of picking And to keep those as far away from your heirlooms as possible.

just food for thought.

And since most heirloom beans have strings, both heirloom & modern snap bean varieties benefit from being widely separated for seed saving.

I believe the "tough" gene Bill refers to is the tendency to form a tough hull. The stringless beans I've grown only form a tough hull very late in their development - so good for young snaps, but not for those who prefer their snaps with well-developed beans. In contrast, many of the Appalachian beans are "string" beans, with strong strings that must be removed - but hulls that remain tender when the beans have filled out.

In my experience, the qualities that make a good snap bean are fickle. Even a cross between two good snap beans can produce an F1 of inferior quality. When I first began saving bean seed, I planted all of my beans together. I had a cross occur between Fortex and Kentucky Wonder #191, that was flat-podded, and fibrous to the point where it was inedible. A cross between a stringed but tender heirloom, and a stringless but hulled snap bean probably would not turn out well.

To those on this forum who grow bean crosses (segregations) do you sample the results as snaps? If so, what results have you experienced?