A Seed Saver's Garden

[Blue-Jay]

There are places that said it was a true bush too. SSE said 'sprawling bush habit' which makes me wonder if there is a difference between semi runner and sprawling bush? On the same note, some places describe a bean as 'a bush that throws short runners' - isn't that a semi runner?

Bountiful probably can be described as a sprawling bush. It will get heavy and widen out with maturity and with a full load of pods often lean over on it's side. However I don't care what those other sources tell you Bountiful is not a semi runner. No No ! I've got old seed catalogs that date back to about the time the variety was released and it's described as a bush bean. I'll have to dig some up and see If can scan the Bountiful Listings and post them here.

 

[Blue-Jay]

Full text of "American varieties of garden beans"

From an old book called "American varieties of garden beans"

BOUNTIFUL.

Listed by 31 seedsmen. Seeds tested: Henderson, 1900-1902, 1905; Keeney,
1904-1906; Rogers, 1906.

Description. — Plant large-medium, fairly erect when young, but often drooping
when fully grown, without runners or decided spreading branches, somewhat thick
stemmed, green throughout, very early, of moderate bearing period, heavily to mod-
erately productive. Leaf medium in size, very light green in color. Flowers light
pink. Snap pods uniform in size, very long, generally curved only at tip end, flat,
very light green in color, brittle, stringless, of inappreciable fiber, of good quality,
somewhat subject to anthracnose. Point of pod extremely long, slender, and slightly
curved or straight. Green shell pods borne both, above and below foliage, never col-
ored or splashed, slightly depressed between seeds, about 6| inches long and usually
containing 6 to 8 seeds fairly close in pod. Dry pods generally easy to thrash. Dry
seeds medium in size, slender, roundish oval through cross section, truncate or rounded
at ends, straight or slightly incurved at eye, solid straw yellow in color, sometimes
shading to coppery yellow, always with minute brownish area around eye.

Comparison. — Well known but not one of the twelve most largely grown bush varie-
ties. Rapidly gaining in popularity and largely replacing Long Yellow Six. Weeks, to
which it is much superior in quality, besides earlier and having larger, straighter pods.
Because of fine quality, it makes an excellent sort for home gardening, and being, with
the possible exception of Grenell's Stringless Green Pod and Hodson Green Pod, the
largest, most handsome, and even shaped of the flat, green-podded bush sorts, is excel-
lent also for market use. Of same usefulness as Grenell's Stringless Green Pod and
more like it in appearance than any other, differing in no important respects except in
color of seed, in season, and in light green foliage.

Synomjms. — Breck's Boston Snap, Sutton's Plentiful (of English seed houses).

History.— Introduced in 1899 by Peter Henderson & Co., who state the variety came
from D. G. Burlingame, of Genesee, N. Y.

I believe what you have in your grow out is outcrossing.

 

[heirloomgal]

Good thing I've got you @Bluejay77 to keep the varieties straight, because I would have been totally lost thinking those sources might be accurate! Oh well, looks like I may not be able to return seeds for that one since they all seem to have a growing point that will wrap around a bamboo stake. The good news is Vaquero is growing true to type afterall, and Bamberger Blaue has only one plant that is climbing. The last one to be determined is Tennessee Green. Thank you for your help!

 

[Blue-Jay]

Good thing I've got you @Bluejay77 to keep the varieties straight, because I would have been totally lost thinking those sources might be accurate! Oh well, looks like I may not be able to return seeds for that one since they all seem to have a growing point that will wrap around a bamboo stake. The good news is Vaquero is growing true to type afterall, and Bamberger Blaue has only one plant that is climbing. The last one to be determined is Tennessee Green. Thank you for your help!

From The same Book.

Tennessee Greenpod. This one is a semi runner

TENNESSEE GREEN POD.

Listed by 2 seedsmen.- Seeds tested: Ferry, 1904-1906; Schwill, 1905.

Description. — Plant large, very spreading, with many semirunners and drooping
branches, very thick stemmed, green throughout, early-intermediate in season, long
in bearing, heavily to moderately productive. Leaf large, very dark green, very wide
across leaflets, and of rough surface. Flowers white. Snap pods somewhat variable
in size. long, moderately curved, often much bent to one side, very flat, deeply
depressed at dorsal suture, very angular or narrowed at ventral suture, medium green,
somewhat tough, stringy, of moderate fiber, of poor to medium quality, free from
anthracnose. Point of pod moderately long and curved. Green shell pods generally
borne well above foliage on thick fruit spurs, never splashed or appreciably colored
except for black lines along sutures, very much depressed between seeds, much thicker
at ventral than at dorsal side, about 6| inches long, and usually containing 7 seeds
much separated in pod. Dry pods fairly easy to thrash. Dry seeds of medium size,
proportionally short, oval through cross section, generally well rounded at ends,
straight at eye, solid dark hazel in color.

Comparison. — This little known and planted variety is much liked in Tennessee and
the South, and is said to grow very well at the North. Although especially recom-
mended as a green shell bean, it may be used also for snaps, as its pods are thicker and
more tender than Emperor William and other flat-podded varieties of its class. L T n-
suited for field culture because of colored seed, coarse growth, and less productive-
ness and hardiness than strictly field varieties. Most like Emperor William, differing
principally in color of seed, narrower pods, more spreading vine, and with fruit stalks
more prominently above foliage. Pods peculiar for being more sunken between s< < ids
than is the case in any other variety.

Synonyms. — Field's First Early, Brown Bunch.

History. — Introduced in 1904 by D. M. Ferry & Co., but known in the South some
time before that date, especially near Knoxville, Tenn.

 

[heirloomgal]

Thank you again. Okay, so I've got another one that seems to be doing what it is supposed to. The return packet insert for Tennessee Green says 'bush', should I scratch that and write above 'semi'?

 

[heirloomgal]

(Just a little note to add @Bluejay77, Tennessee Green and Vaquero are both in the Window as 'bush'. )

 

[Blue-Jay]

(Just a little note to add @Bluejay77, Tennessee Green and Vaquero are both in the Window as 'bush'. )

I will go to the website and change both of them. Is there a growth habit marked on your return packet and Package inventory list? If yes they both need to be the same.

 

[heirloomgal]

I will go to the website and change both of them. Is there a growth habit marked on your return packet and Package inventory list? If yes they both need to be the same.

No growth habit listed on either.

 

[heirloomgal]

White currant crop. Boiled and sweetened the black currants. Will do these next.

Made 'cabbage rolls' using Swiss chard leaves. Took a lot of time but the effort was worth it. Much more flavour I found with the chard vs cabbage.

For anyone interested in pea seed saving.
Pea pods can dry sequentially over quite a long period of time, and when there are many varieties it can be tricky to keep it all straight. You could be harvesting individual pods for months possibly. So what I have found works well is, have paper bags with variety names on the fold over part of the bag (which means write it upside down) ready on a tray or, even better, cardboard box. Alphabetical order saves lots of time so you don't have to rifle through all the bags looking for the one you want. Once pods begin drying I go out every second day with my box of bags and go from trellis to trellis finding dry pods. If not harvested in time dry pea pods will pop open and drop seed. I like collecting both pea and bean pods in paper and cardboard, never plastic or Styrofoam, because paper products help wick the moisture from them and they breathe. Even placing pods in a plastic cup, not fully dry, can make sweat at the bottom of the cup if piled deep enough. That tiny bit of moisture can be just enough to ruin some of the seeds. I leave all my legume pods in the closed paper bags until November-December to be absolutely sure they are dry. Many people lose perfect seed by storing them for the winter in closed containers before they are perfectly dry.

These are early pea varieties that have dried most of their pods for the season. When the number of varieties with dry pods increases, I'll switch to a larger shallow cardboard box and put them in order.

 

[flowerbug]

For anyone interested in pea seed saving.
Pea pods can dry sequentially over quite a long period of time, and when there are many varieties it can be tricky to keep it all straight. You could be harvesting individual pods for months possibly. So what I have found works well is, have paper bags with variety names on the fold over part of the bag (which means write it upside down) ready on a tray or, even better, cardboard box. Alphabetical order saves lots of time so you don't have to rifle through all the bags looking for the one you want. Once pods begin drying I go out every second day with my box of bags and go from trellis to trellis finding dry pods. If not harvested in time dry pea pods will pop open and drop seed. I like collecting both pea and bean pods in paper and cardboard, never plastic or Styrofoam, because paper products help wick the moisture from them and they breathe. Even placing pods in a plastic cup, not fully dry, can make sweat at the bottom of the cup if piled deep enough. That tiny bit of moisture can be just enough to ruin some of the seeds. I leave all my legume pods in the closed paper bags until November-December to be absolutely sure they are dry. Many people lose perfect seed by storing them for the winter in closed containers before they are perfectly dry.

These are early pea varieties that have dried most of their pods for the season. When the number of varieties with dry pods increases, I'll switch to a larger shallow cardboard box and put them in order.
View attachment 42418

those white currants are reminding me of fish eggs! so strange looking, but fun. how do they taste?

as for peas and pea seed saving, i don't have a huge number of varieties but when i put some that aren't quite dry enough yet i put them in a box top to dry with a label which says what they are. the times i put anything in a box top thinking i'll remember what it is i usually eventually regret that impulse so now i've learned to keep making a label if needed.

when picking i do use quart yogurt containers because i can stack them, but as soon as i get them in the house i spread things out in box tops so they can dry and have a less hard surface to sit upon while drying. i also have to once in a while check for any that might start rotting even if left open to the air in a box top. sometimes things are just too wet when picked and i have to keep an eye on things and stir or rotate them. a few times i rescue moldy pods by removing the pods and just put the seeds to dry. it works at times.

air movement and keeping an eye on things, shelling when dried enough (so i can reuse the box tops for another batch), once the peas are dried enough they can go into their own box top to finish drying. but this is about the same thing i do for beans too.