A Seed Saver's Garden

[heirloomgal]

Curious - did space opera supplant the phrase 'science fiction'? If so, why?

 

[Pulsegleaner]

Curious - did space opera supplant the phrase 'science fiction'? If so, why?

Not really. It sort of depends on who you ask.

To purists, space operas fall into the category of "soft" science fiction, as opposed to "hard". The main difference between the two is that, in "hard" science fiction, all of the science has to check out in the real current world. EVERYTHING that happens has to be explainable under current scientific knowledge. With "soft" you can make up the rules as you go, so it's really more of fantasy with a futuristic setting. A lot of people also think hard has to focus ONLY on the science, so concepts like plot and character development, and emotions are actually detractors (I once joked that, to an ultra purist, the only thing that would be considered true hard science fiction was a lab report written before you did the actual experiment, and even then, only one where you'd done that same experiment before so you KNEW what was going to happen.)

Space Opera is mostly a 1940's -70's idea, taking the adventure and other genre shows and adapting them to a futuristic setting.

In fact, the divide has gotten so bad that some writers don't even like the term "science fiction" anymore, preferring Harlan Ellison's "speculative fiction", which gives a little more leeway with the science focus.

 

[Jack Holloway]

They don't, but The Dark Side of the Sun might.

As for it being a space opera, Great A'Tuin is in space, Ankh-Morpork has an opera, so what else do we need to qualify?

Oh I forgot a REAL Space Opera, Jack Vance's Tschai novels, City of the Chansh, Servants of the Wankh, The Dirdir, and The Pnume.

Great A'Tuin, what I like about the Disc World books is the strange turns Sir Pratchett takes. What other books have a religion based on the sex of the turtle the world rests on, or where a shopping mall is a living thing luring people in to eat them, or a dog that can out stare a mirror, or the dwarf's god Tak, who "doesn't require us to think of him, only that we think." Plus Pratchett co-wrote Good Omens.

I haven't read the Jack Vance novels. I'll check them out. Thanks for the recommendation.

 

[flowerbug]

Well, if you like Space Operas then you need to read E.E. "Doc" Smith's Lensman series; Galactic Patrol, Gray Lensman, Second Stage Lensmen, and Children of the Lens. Later, Triplanetary and Galactic Patrol were added as books 1 & 2 of the series.

i've never looked at those, but i have heard of them, but the killer for me for a lot of science fiction are those that are too much into time warps or time travel. those just don't do much for me.

last year i read the _We are Bob_ books i could get ahold of (not sure if there are more out now or not, but the three i read were at least interesting enough to finish). can't say they were my favorites, but that's hard to beat (_Dune_ by Herbert and _Songmaster_ by Card are my rereads).

for fantasy anything written by Guy G. Kay. love his writing. it's not short. same for John Crowley. and of course JRR Tolkien's books for involved series i like and reread Fred Saberhagen's Berzerker series. the first book is a collection of shorter episodic stories but i enjoy them all. the later books are full novels (medium long).

i just got Reynold's 5th Revelation Space book Inhibitor Phase so if you don't hear anything from me for a while that might be what i'm doing. getting lost in another world.

 

[flowerbug]

Curious - did space opera supplant the phrase 'science fiction'? If so, why?

no, it's just a subgenre and many series of books can fall there (David Webers Honor series. etc...) oh ghods i'm glad i stopped reading those though... lol i'm just not into where he was going... too much like Downton Abbey in space IMO https://www.bookseriesinorder.com/david-weber/

 

[flowerbug]

i also have to admit that i like a lot of Orson Scott Card's books, starting with Ender's Game is a huge list of writings. i'm not as keen on the later books, but oh well, Enders Game and the next several books in that series are also rereads for me. he has a lot of other books too besides science fiction. the religion stuff i can not worry too much about.

 

[ducks4you]

 

[Pulsegleaner]

Great A'Tuin, what I like about the Disc World books is the strange turns Sir Pratchett takes. What other books have a religion based on the sex of the turtle the world rests on, or where a shopping mall is a living thing luring people in to eat them, or a dog that can out stare a mirror, or the dwarf's god Tak, who "doesn't require us to think of him, only that we think." Plus Pratchett co-wrote Good Omens.

I haven't read the Jack Vance novels. I'll check them out. Thanks for the recommendation.

Now that Pratchett has passed, I usually tell people to go to Tom Holt. He isn't QUITE as good as Pratchett (or Douglas Adams, for that matter) is, but it is SORT of in the same vein.

Craig Shaw Gardener's books are also in the humorous vein, the Ebenezum Trilogy, the Wuntovor Trilogy (which is basically the sequel to the Ebenezum trilogy) the Arabian Nights Trilogy, and the Cinverse trilogy ( who CAN'T love a book titled Revenge of the Fluffy Bunnies?")

 

[heirloomgal]

I'm definitely going to write all these intriguing titles down, just the titles alone are enough to evoke curiosity. As a homeschooler ma I am on a constant treadmill to keep coming up with new book suggestions, and I've been striking out quite a bit in the last year. The last hit was the Percy Jackson series about mythology, and the audiobook versions were narrated extremely well. There are several purchased in the last year that no one wants to open. DD and I read the Chrysalids together (which shockingly was not always appropriate for kids, though I remember reading that in school myself), the Dr. Dolittle series and Mary Poppins (that was an odd trip, not Disney that's for sure) but at these ages the preferences change FAST. She thought Alice in Wonderland was awful, I think because it was all a rather loose metaphor which doesn't make a ton of sense literally. What I've realized in all these reading adventures is it's hard to know what might not be age appropriate until you're in the middle of reading it. I initially tended to focus on the classics, until in doing so, I realized they are not what I remembered, and more often, thought they were.

Of all the titles that are in the above posts, is there any that you think are especially good for young adults or conversely not a good fit for that age group, 12-15?

 

[Zeedman]

Curious - did space opera supplant the phrase 'science fiction'? If so, why?

Think Star Trek, Star Wars, Dune... science fiction that happens "out there", typically involving alien races and/or warfare writ large. As others have mentioned, often playing fast & loose with the "science" aspect, especially with how they choose to deal with interstellar travel. As opposed to SciFi that perhaps deals with the mind, AI, or how technology or social structure may evolve over time. There are no hard lines, sub-genres frequently cross. Some even prefer to lump science fiction & fantasy together as one broad genre, and many authors have written in both.

Kind of the way we tend to play fast & loose with staying on topic in the forums here... we can unexpectedly end up "where none have gone before". Which can be really fun BTW.