A Seed Saver's Garden

[digitS']

@Zeedman is likely 100% correct re: bean hybrids in production for seed. I went back and looked at 2 long lists of mostly commercial green bean cultivars and "hybrid" was only noted with regard to parentage in several cases. "F1" was entirely missing.

If you would like to see those lists and variety lists of many other garden vegetables here is the LINK.

These webpages were originally on the North Carolina State University website but were moved several years ago. It took some sleuthing after they did that to find them again. They are now on the Cucurbit Genetics Cooperative website. Some of the varieties listed have been around for quite a long time and would be classified as heirlooms by a simple time definition of 50 or 75 years, or such. The information hasn't been updated very recently except for, perhaps, the cucurbits but it gives the gardener an idea of origin and year of release to growers.

Steve

 

[heirloomgal]

Peas too, I don't think there are any legit hybrids. I don't think there are any legit hybrid legumes in the commercial market.

 

[flowerbug]

Wonderful info guys! As someone who found their first 'home grown' cross in 2022 (all others have been from other people's gardens so far) it's all information to tuck into my hat. I'm totally inexperienced when it comes to working with crosses.

if you want to do selected cross breeding that can be even more fun. i wish i had steadier hands and a way to see what i'm doing. so far i've had to let nature do the crossing for me and then work from the selection angle after the fact.

as for how many crosses i might see in a year it depends upon what i'm planting (some beans seem easier than others) and then how the native bees were doing when those plants were flowering. i'm suspecting i'll have some more crosses next season to work with to go along with the ones i already have to plant.

at the seed swap @Bluejay77 got to see the Purple Dove potential crosses and i'm hoping at least a few of them work out.

 

[Pulsegleaner]

And for beans, I would recommend sampling at least one pod from each plant as a snap. You wouldn't want to inadvertently overlook a great-flavored stringless snap while chasing seed coat color. As pretty as beans are, we need to remind ourselves that a pretty but unpalatable bean is unlikely to survive as anything other than a novelty. (says the bean pot, calling the kettle black )

Sound advice, but with one caveat. The pod you choose for a snap should be the SECOND, if not later, pod on the plant. After all, you don't want to grab the first pod as a snap, taste it, find it good, and then lose the type when something happens so that the plant doesn't make any more pods (a problem I often have.) To err on the side of caution, ALWAYS reserve the first fruit of a given potentially new plant for seed; you can always replace it later.

I might go so far as to say not to take the "snap-rifice" pod until at least the first pod worth of seed is mature, collected and stored, just to be on the safe side.

And get creative when I comes to snap tasting. Common beans and peas aren't the only legumes whose pods can be good immature. Yard-Long/Asparagus beans are a classic eat when green legume, but I have encountered some promising ones among the non-yard long cowpeas as well. Ditto chickpeas, and pretty much any other edible legume. When the season reached its end I've even tried snap azuki and mung beans and found some palatable (though generally too small to really be worth the effort of picking.)

 

[Pulsegleaner]

However, I have grown several "hybrid" bitter melons (including the one in my avatar) that grew true from seed.

This news heartens me, as it means my plant to de-hybridize the Apple Luffa actually has a semi-reasonable chance of success in getting what I want in the end (a spherical, white seeded luffa I can count on to come true.)

 

[Eleanor]

I think some seed companies mark seeds as hybrids to discourage people from saving seed from them.

Respectfully, the notion a seed company intentionally mislabels a variety as a hybrid to discourage seed saving is a twee bit conspiratorial. The Federal Seed Act as well as the seed laws of the company's home state prescribes what is included on a retail seed pack. Any company worth their weight in salt would not risk legal jeopardy or damage to their reputation by intentionally conferring hybrid status on an open-pollinated variety. This isn't to say that mistakes do not happen, especially when the person responsible for the content of the label / product listing is more marketing-oriented and less botanically aware, or if seeds are a “new” product to the company, or even if the variety over time has "stablized." I wager the rare occasion hybrid is misapplied is a result of lack of proof-reading and not mal-intent. My brief poke-around online reveals quite a few seed companies have expanded their educational outreach to encourage seed saving which also diminishes a furtive agenda.

 

[heirloomgal]

Back in December I listed a tomato on the exchange that I grew for the first time in 2022. I had bought the packet though 10 years prior. Sadly, I had forgotten the neat little story that went with! All I could remember was that it had something do do with nuns, lol. When I listed the tomato I put out an 'SOS' for the story if anyone had it. As far as I am aware, it isn't available anywhere anymore, and the seed company I got it from is now defunct. It's been nearly 4 months, but I got a wonderful message today from the person who is the original source for this tomato! Wow! So happy! I didn't think this would happen!

 

[Jack Holloway]

Back in December I listed a tomato on the exchange that I grew for the first time in 2022. I had bought the packet though 10 years prior. Sadly, I had forgotten the neat little story that went with! All I could remember was that it had something do do with nuns, lol. When I listed the tomato I put out an 'SOS' for the story if anyone had it. As far as I am aware, it isn't available anywhere anymore, and the seed company I got it from is now defunct. It's been nearly 4 months, but I got a wonderful message today from the person who is the original source for this tomato! Wow! So happy! I didn't think this would happen!

Well don't leave us in suspense! What is the story? What is the tomato?

 

[heirloomgal]

Chuckle of the evening Jack, . It's funny though, she left me a little in the lurch too! The name of the tomato is 'Nips', and this lady tells me that Nips is short for Nipawin. She apparently got some seedlings years ago from a lady named Sister Marion Noll who lived in the Ursuline Convent in Bruno, Saskatchewan. She didn't say when this was but I imagine this was much more than decade ago, since I've had seeds for a decade. She paused the story there and told me she is going to write to Sister Marion and ask her for story specifics about where she got it from so her & I can 'streamline and co-ordinate the history' as she put it. She wants to list it in the exchange too next year. She attached an info clip which I don't quite understand, but it looks like Sister Marion may have shared her seedlings with others Sisters at the convent and one of the other Sisters, Sister Aquinas, may have shared seeds for it too with someone. Turns out, one prairie seed company used to sell seeds for this tomato calling it 'Aquinas', (having gotten it from the woman who got it from Sister Aquinas) though I didn't get the impression that Aquinas was still being offered. At least, that's what I understood. It also appears that this tomato the Sisters were growing had been given to them (I'm still not sure which Sister is the original receiver of these seeds) by a family who was from the Dakota's, who had immigrated presumably to Saskatchewan in the 1950's and stayed at the convent for awhile. Where the location of Nipawin fits into this I'm not sure yet, it may be where the Dakota family moved to. I'm hoping we will have the foggier details made more clear when/if Sister Marion writes this lady back.

One of the nice things about this tomato is that not only is the history rather interesting, but it's also a rather unique variety. Sort of a pear shape, very heavy, nice quality. Here's a picture of Nips from this past summer.

 

[Blue-Jay]

Saw these words below today on Facebook. This description might reveal another aspect of gardening that is not often thought about and quite true too.

Gardening has the reputation as a gentle and chill hobby, but you know what? Gardening is actually a constant and brutal conflict between the the human need for control and the will of life to spread. A battle of life and death itself. In the garden I am Overlord Supreme, King of the dirt, arbiter above all. The final judge of who gets to live and who must die. I drowned and entire anthill for daring to exist in my realm. The blood of hundreds has soiled my soul. My thumbs maybe green, but my hands are black and deadly.