A Seed Saver's Garden

[Pulsegleaner]

Which part is like velcro? I have not yet grown chickpeas so I don't know anything about the plants.

The seed coats. Basically, they're a subtype of the desi (grinding) type of chickpea whose seed coat is so covered with hard little bumps (many desi have at least some, but they tend to be fewer an lower) that they will actually catch on things like flannel (or burlap, which is why they are not desirable for commerce, getting them clean is even harder than for normal chickpeas.) They're basically just a curiosity. In general commerce, they are extremely rare (for the mentioned reason, they hold onto dirt and burlap fibers from the sacks,) but some time ago, I got a bunch of tiny mixed bags of beans from the religious' section of the Indian grocery store (no, I have no idea why they were there, or of what use they were to be put.) but about HALF of the chickpeas in there had the trait, so I have about a pint of them now.)

Chickpeas might do well for you, since they like the cold (for me, they'd be an early spring crop.) Kabouli types (like the garbanzo beans you find in the stores) are bigger, softer, and easier to cook with while desi types (mostly grown in India and used for chickpea flour and dhal,) while smaller and harder to use, tend to be more hardy and durable.

Bear in mind though that since a chickpea pod only has one (or occasionally two) seeds in it (there are rumors of ones with more, but I have seen no confirmation) the plants have a pretty high acreage to yield ratio (as in, you need a lot of plants if you want a lot of seeds back.) I have no idea what the maximum ratio is (I usually count myself lucky to get eight to ten off a plant, but that is me with my tough conditions.) But I'd imagine that, even if you could get the things to a bush size, your total yield per plant would probably be well under 100 peas.)

 

[flowerbug]

... But I'd imagine that, even if you could get the things to a bush size, your total yield per plant would probably be well under 100 peas.)

the mass plantings i've seen it looks pretty sparse by harvest time. like some of the soybean fields here they have very closely planted rows but they do not give a huge plant with a ton of pods, instead they give enough and the cover is optimum based upon whatever planting and studies they've done through the years.

my own experiments with interplanting verifies for me that while i may gain some more harvest i'm probably trading in other ways for more beans from the surrounding plants. either a lot of plants that are small or larger plants that are spaced out better. the results seem rather similar.

the gains i see at times i think are more related to having more shade for keeping the garden soil cooler. then the denser canopy and tighter spacing can invite more trouble with rot so i end up losing out that ways... trade-offs...

 

[digitS']

There are quite a few acres of chick peas here but there didn't seem to be several years ago. I had never seen them growing when I lived out in the sticks but liked to eat them.

So, I grew some. They are small plants and there was little yield — I decided that they were not really suitable as a garden plant.

For machine harvesting, there is an advantage for smaller plants in some cases. There should be an interest in a vining chick pea ... umm, maybe .

Steve

 

[Zeedman]

For machine harvesting, there is an advantage for smaller plants in some cases. There should be an interest in a vining chick pea ... umm, maybe .

Or a climbing variety, to keep the pods further from rodents, and provide more ventilation around the moisture-sensitive pods.

 

[heirloomgal]

The seed coats. Basically, they're a subtype of the desi (grinding) type of chickpea whose seed coat is so covered with hard little bumps (many desi have at least some, but they tend to be fewer an lower) that they will actually catch on things like flannel (or burlap, which is why they are not desirable for commerce, getting them clean is even harder than for normal chickpeas.) They're basically just a curiosity. In general commerce, they are extremely rare (for the mentioned reason, they hold onto dirt and burlap fibers from the sacks,) but some time ago, I got a bunch of tiny mixed bags of beans from the religious' section of the Indian grocery store (no, I have no idea why they were there, or of what use they were to be put.) but about HALF of the chickpeas in there had the trait, so I have about a pint of them now.)

Chickpeas might do well for you, since they like the cold (for me, they'd be an early spring crop.) Kabouli types (like the garbanzo beans you find in the stores) are bigger, softer, and easier to cook with while desi types (mostly grown in India and used for chickpea flour and dhal,) while smaller and harder to use, tend to be more hardy and durable.

Bear in mind though that since a chickpea pod only has one (or occasionally two) seeds in it (there are rumors of ones with more, but I have seen no confirmation) the plants have a pretty high acreage to yield ratio (as in, you need a lot of plants if you want a lot of seeds back.) I have no idea what the maximum ratio is (I usually count myself lucky to get eight to ten off a plant, but that is me with my tough conditions.) But I'd imagine that, even if you could get the things to a bush size, your total yield per plant would probably be well under 100 peas.)

Well @Pulsegleaner, you've taught be something new about legumes - again. I had no idea that chickpeas were divided into those two groups. All these years I thought when I bought besan flour, it was the same as the chickpeas I was cooking from a dried state.

What makes this topic a bit intriguing for me is that, I was really into falafels in my 20's, and used to get them at restaurants all the time when I was down south. (It's also how I learned to really enjoy pickled turnips too.) This of course set me on a path of trying to learn how to make my own. After several attempts at making them from scratch, I was able to create a good tasting chickpea patty, but one that did not taste like my restaurant falafels, nor did it have the texture. And then, the grocery stores started carrying a boxed product which was an 'add water and stir' falafel mix. That seemed like the magic I was looking for and the ingredients were pretty simple. Then when I went gluten free I couldn't use the mixes anymore and was outta luck, there was wheat in them. I haven't had one since. (Doesn't help I have no pita to wrap it in too.) Then I met a Syrian lady who's dad had a falafel restaurant; they would soak the chickpeas overnight, grind them in the morning with the spices and fry them in oil. I wondered if this was part of why I've eaten so many failed falafel recipes, both my own and others. Most people used cooked, mashed chickpeas - not cooked from a ground up raw state. SO, I wonder if the desi chickpea versus 'regular' chickpea is yet another clue in my decades long search for how to make an authentic falafel.

The yields on this species - yikes. That is pretty darn low.

 

[heirloomgal]

All my pepper seeds for 2024 are ordered, which is sort of nice to have done. The 30% off sale amounted to a significant amount of savings, which I'm quite pleased with. I should be good for at least the next 2 or 3 years with this order, so long as I don't overdo it. Lots from Spain, Hungary and Turkey. Most are conical red types that have a little heat, or none. I'm kind of excited already since this will be the first real grow out I've ever done of peppers I'd consider truly rare. Fuszer Csipus, Hatvani Eros, Portokalova Fifironka, Sulu Adana, Pimento Chorizero, Naso Di Cane, Piluca, Broom Pepper, Cuzquerio, to name..................a few.

I will have to face the fact (soon) that I've got enough peppers to love in my collection, and I'll need to stop finding more. Gotta reach deep and find the discipline for that. Especially since peppers are a slightly more promiscuous self pollinator than most.


I've been doing mostly pot culture with peppers for years and thought it was the best way to go in the North, but these last couple years have me doubting that. At least with the bigger peppers. My Lesya's were in really good shape this year, and they were in ground. I followed the suggestions at Atlantic Pepper seeds and it seems to have worked. I laid a thick trench, about 8 inches out from the row, full of fish bone meal and put a bit of Epsom salts around the plants. I'm finally upping my pepper game, it's only taken about 15 years! And all the other randomly placed peppers put in ground did super good too. Of course, I've got to consider the past couple summers have been a blessing of heat. It's always been pretty easy to grow peppers, but growing them well is a different story.

 

[Pulsegleaner]

For machine harvesting, there is an advantage for smaller plants in some cases. There should be an interest in a vining chick pea ... umm, maybe .

Steve

Or a climbing variety, to keep the pods further from rodents, and provide more ventilation around the moisture-sensitive pods.

There might be, but given that even the wild ancestor of the chickpea is an upright plant, I rather suspect that climbing/vining is not in the plants genome.

Well @Pulsegleaner, you've taught be something new about legumes - again. I had no idea that chickpeas were divided into those two groups. All these years I thought when I bought besan flour, it was the same as the chickpeas I was cooking from a dried state.

What makes this topic a bit intriguing for me is that, I was really into falafels in my 20's, and used to get them at restaurants all the time when I was down south. (It's also how I learned to really enjoy pickled turnips too.) This of course set me on a path of trying to learn how to make my own. After several attempts at making them from scratch, I was able to create a good tasting chickpea patty, but one that did not taste like my restaurant falafels, nor did it have the texture. And then, the grocery stores started carrying a boxed product which was an 'add water and stir' falafel mix. That seemed like the magic I was looking for and the ingredients were pretty simple. Then when I went gluten free I couldn't use the mixes anymore and was outta luck, there was wheat in them. I haven't had one since. (Doesn't help I have no pita to wrap it in too.) Then I met a Syrian lady who's dad had a falafel restaurant; they would soak the chickpeas overnight, grind them in the morning with the spices and fry them in oil. I wondered if this was part of why I've eaten so many failed falafel recipes, both my own and others. Most people used cooked, mashed chickpeas - not cooked from a ground up raw state. SO, I wonder if the desi chickpea versus 'regular' chickpea is yet another clue in my decades long search for how to make an authentic falafel.

The yields on this species - yikes. That is pretty darn low.

Well, the real original falafel isn't made of chickpeas at all, it's made of small fava beans (at least, according to the Egyptians.)

But, the problem with what you said is that, as I said, most desi are grown in India, and falafel originates in the Middle East. Most middle eastern chickpeas are more on the kabouli side of chickpeas (hence the name, "kabouli"; "from Kabul, Afghanistan.) There are a FEW that would count as desi (ironically, I consider Black Kabouli a desi, as it has that super thick skin,) but most are just as thin skinned as the Italian ones.

Plus, if you WERE going to make your own bisan, you'd start with channa dal, chickpeas that had been hulled and split. Those thick seed coats have to be removed before one can get good flour of of them.

 

[heirloomgal]

I’m still working my way through peppers and doing de-seeding. Its become actually enjoyable because I can take my time and appreciate them more now that I’m not dealing with garden glut. I went out and bought several latex glove packs, to pick the seeds out from the peppers with my fingers. Tried a spoon, nah. I kept switching up sets of gloves so the capsaicin couldn't work it's way through, and that worked perfect which I'm pretty thrilled about.

I am really, really liking the Aji Strawberry Drop peppers. What a nice variety! It doesn't burn the nose with heat while deseeding even though they're hot. The fruits are a nice size, and the strawberry shape is real! They picked the right name for these. I gave all of them to my neighbour, and I'll be curious to see what the jelly tastes like. I have a feeling this one is a cut above.

The seed harvest from them was pretty good, considering I didn't grow many plants.

I'm not sure what to make of these Thunder Mountain peppers. I'd be curious to know how you fared with these @Zeedman . This is my second time growing them - and getting seeds from a different source - and still they turned out not really looking like they should. At least, not according to the photos where they look like spaghetti. The platter they're on is very large, would fit a turkey. Last year's peppers were red and looked just like these. Somehow, these ones are brown? Seems against the odds that 2 different companies would sell me seed that would produce virtually the same not true to type peppers? Maybe this is just in the genetic lines.

Brazilian Starfish. These are such unique little fruits! I am late getting to them, but the harvest was good so if I lose a few it will not be of much consequence. For basically outdoor grown baccatums, they're performance was great.

White Hot Finger peppers, a Capiscum chinense type. There was a bit of variation in the pods of each plant. The production was really good though despite the slightly unusual diversity they express. They are quite ivory looking, with some yellow highlights which are exaggerated in the photo.

 

[Zeedman]

I'm not sure what to make of these Thunder Mountain peppers. I'd be curious to know how you fared with these @Zeedman . This is my second time growing them - and getting seeds from a different source - and still they turned out not really looking like they should. At least, not according to the photos where they look like spaghetti. The platter they're on is very large, would fit a turkey. Last year's peppers were red and looked just like these. Somehow, these ones are brown? Seems against the odds that 2 different companies would sell me seed that would produce virtually the same not true to type peppers? Maybe this is just in the genetic lines.

The brown version, "Thunder Mountain Cacho", is the one I grew. Unfortunately, it was in the portion of the rural garden that was overrun with weeds, and I wrote it off as a failure. That was the only pepper failure I had this year. It had company; my "Miracle" sweet corn, and "Virus Free White" tepary beans, and scarlet-flowered favas there also failed. Which likely means that I'll have to reduce the size of the rural garden even further. I'll be talking to all of those who I've shared produce with the next time we get together, and ask whether anyone is willing to help weed several times during the summer.

 

[Zeedman]

@heirloomgal , your success with C. baccatum peppers is inspiring me to try more of them. But the thing us, now that I am retired, I have no one to give them to. The son-in-law really liked both of the hot pepper crosses which came up this year; but few of my friends & family like hot peppers, other than dried for pepper powder. I miss sharing with all the "fire eaters" at my previous job; I could bring in a bucket of hot peppers - even ghost peppers - and they would all go away. Now I'm mostly just growing them to maintain seed to share. Hot peppers were the last things harvested before the freeze, I literally have a couple pounds right now, of 4 varieties.