A Seed Saver's Garden

[Pulsegleaner]

What are the Latin names for the herbs please? Would you recommend any of them as especially fragrant or wonderful tasting? I'm guessing that if you can get it to seed, I might be able to as well, unless of course these herbs were all overwintered.

Lets see

Chinese mint- Mentha haplocalyx

Syrian Oregano - Origanum maru (at least, that's the one I have. Some people say true Syrian is Origanum syriaticum, and maru is a cross between that and standard oregano).

Cat Thyme - Teucrium maru

Southwestern Oregano - Polominthia longiflora

As for use, I don't actually use most of them much (I should but I forget they are there when I am cooking).

Chinese mint is about the same as conventional mint in flavor, as far as I can see.

Syrian oregano isn't so much fragrant as it is STRONG, REALLY strong, like MANY MANY TIMES as powerful as the standard one. I've been told one leaf is all you need for a whole pizza.

Southwestern oregano I'm not sure is any more fragrant than the usual type, but it is a lot PRETTIER than it, with it's masses of long tubular pink flowers. It also seems to be a favorite with the hummingbirds.

Cat thyme is really more for cats than people (though some places in the middle east do add it to their zaatar mixes.) The smell is hard to describe to someone who has never smelled it, strong is the best description (it's related to germander, so maybe smelling that would give you a clue). On the other hand, cat's (even ones ambivalent to catnip and catmint) often love it, and unlike those, which just make them loopy and relaxed, cat thyme has a tendency to make them hyper affectionate as well.

The one drawback is, as I said, it doesn't grow all that fast. Also, it's survival from year to year is a sort of shot in the dark for me. THIS one made it through last winter fine (as did all of them) but the one before it died down to the base and never really grew back.

Sort of what happened with the pine scented rosemary (Rosmarius augustifolius); made it through three or four years fine and became almost a shrub, then totally died over the next one.

Plus, you are a BIT colder than me, I think, so what is marginal for me may be beyond your safe zone.

I also now have a big pot of juniper thyme (Thymus leuchotrichus) but I haven't used any of that for anything yet

 

[heirloomgal]

Lets see

Chinese mint- Mentha haplocalyx

Syrian Oregano - Origanum maru (at least, that's the one I have. Some people say true Syrian is Origanum syriaticum, and maru is a cross between that and standard oregano).

Cat Thyme - Teucrium maru

Southwestern Oregano - Polominthia longiflora

As for use, I don't actually use most of them much (I should but I forget they are there when I am cooking).

Chinese mint is about the same as conventional mint in flavor, as far as I can see.

Syrian oregano isn't so much fragrant as it is STRONG, REALLY strong, like MANY MANY TIMES as powerful as the standard one. I've been told one leaf is all you need for a whole pizza.

Southwestern oregano I'm not sure is any more fragrant than the usual type, but it is a lot PRETTIER than it, with it's masses of long tubular pink flowers. It also seems to be a favorite with the hummingbirds.

Cat thyme is really more for cats than people (though some places in the middle east do add it to their zaatar mixes.) The smell is hard to describe to someone who has never smelled it, strong is the best description (it's related to germander, so maybe smelling that would give you a clue). On the other hand, cat's (even ones ambivalent to catnip and catmint) often love it, and unlike those, which just make them loopy and relaxed, cat thyme has a tendency to make them hyper affectionate as well.

The one drawback is, as I said, it doesn't grow all that fast. Also, it's survival from year to year is a sort of shot in the dark for me. THIS one made it through last winter fine (as did all of them) but the one before it died down to the base and never really grew back.

Sort of what happened with the pine scented rosemary (Rosmarius augustifolius); made it through three or four years fine and became almost a shrub, then totally died over the next one.

Plus, you are a BIT colder than me, I think, so what is marginal for me may be beyond your safe zone.

I also now have a big pot of juniper thyme (Thymus leuchotrichus) but I haven't used any of that for anything yet

Thank you so much @Pulsegleaner!
I will research these and see what Richter's might have available. The Syrian Oregano already sounds like something I'd really enjoy growing.

I just realized yesterday that my Iberian White Thyme is not hardy to my zone. I think I'm going to dig the 2 clumps up and see if they'll overwinter, along with the Winter Lemon Savory and Balkan mint. I think I missed my chance to harvest seeds, I don't see where they are on the plants if they're there. I really hope they can make it indoors.

 

[Pulsegleaner]

Thank you so much @Pulsegleaner!
I will research these and see what Richter's might have available. The Syrian Oregano already sounds like something I'd really enjoy growing.

I just realized yesterday that my Iberian White Thyme is not hardy to my zone. I think I'm going to dig the 2 clumps up and see if they'll overwinter, along with the Winter Lemon Savory and Balkan mint. I think I missed my chance to harvest seeds, I don't see where they are on the plants if they're there. I really hope they can make it indoors.

You'd probably love conehead thyme as well (Cordiothymus/Thymus capitatus ) a.k.a Hyssop Thyme* as well, since that is another super powerful one (it's so strong it verges on painful, especially the flowers). But that is DEFINITELY not winter hardy for you (since it isn't for me) and sort of finicky even if you are willing to bring it in over the winter (part of the problem is that the leaves are very small and needle-like, and covered with silvery hair, so the plant looks more or less the same whether it is alive or dead, and you usually don't realize it's dead until you touch it and all the leaves fall off). If I recall Richter's DOES have that, but as I said, it would be a tough uphill battle.

I also got my hands on something called South African rosemary (Eriocephalus africanus), which I will try next year. Might try Jamaican mint as well (somewhere in the Saturneja genus) as well, if I can find another (it was a limited supply item when I got it off Etsy, and the trip in the winter basically killed it on the way).

​

* This stuff is probably THE hyssop mentioned biblically, not the anise stuff.

 

[Blue-Jay]

I did have just a little garden fun this summer. l got to watch volunteer pumpkin, volunteer acorn squash, and volunteer tomato plants grow in one of my small back yard plots. The fellow who owns the property where I have an offsite bean plot grew pumpkins and acorn squashes last year and he gave me two acorn squashes. So when I cleaned out the squashes and threw out some seed and spoiled tomatoes from last summer on this small plot. The seeds lay there under the snow during January. We got a real warm spell in Febraury and I roto tilled the soil in my back yard plots. So the tomato and acorn squash seeds lay in the soil the rest of the winter. In about the middle of May I could see little tomato plants coming up along the edge of the plot and what looked like sqush vines coming up in the center. I never watered them all summer. May through July we had real good rain. By August I could see acorn squashes growing and to my surprise some of the vines were producing pumpkins. There eventually were about 20 squashes and over a dozen pumpkins in the 10 foot by 15 foot plot. This fellow squashes crossed with the pumpkins and this year I was the recipient of some of both. He planted acorn squashes and pumpkins again this year but my untended plot did better than what he took care of most of the summer. About August he gave up on his plot. So I harvested 4 pumpkins the other day and took a photo of them before I delivered them to him so his grand children have pumpkins to carve at Halloween time.

Beans In The Photo

Upper left: Osborne & Clyde 2024
Upper Right: Scorpio lima off type 2023
Center Left: Brown Eyed Goose 2024
Center Right: Vermont Mohawk 2024
Bottom: Khabarovsk 2024

 

[heirloomgal]

I did have just a little garden fun this summer. l got to watch volunteer pumpkin, volunteer acorn squash, and volunteer tomato plants grow in one of my small back yard plots. The fellow who owns the property where I have an offsite bean plot grew pumpkins and acorn squashes last year and he gave me two acorn squashes. So when I cleaned out the squashes and threw out some seed and spoiled tomatoes from last summer on this small plot. The seeds lay there under the snow during January. We got a real warm spell in Febraury and I roto tilled the soil in my back yard plots. So the tomato and acorn squash seeds lay in the soil the rest of the winter. In about the middle of May I could see little tomato plants coming up along the edge of the plot and what looked like sqush vines coming up in the center. I never watered them all summer. May through July we had real good rain. By August I could see acorn squashes growing and to my surprise some of the vines were producing pumpkins. There eventually were about 20 squashes and over a dozen pumpkins in the 10 foot by 15 foot plot. This fellow squashes crossed with the pumpkins and this year I was the recipient of some of both. He planted acorn squashes and pumpkins again this year but my untended plot did better than what he took care of most of the summer. About August he gave up on his plot. So I harvested 4 pumpkins the other day and took a photo of them before I delivered them to him so his grand children have pumpkins to carve at Halloween time.

View attachment 69716

Oh my gosh!!! These pumpkins never got watered and they look this good!!!? This picture with the beans and the bean pods as a backdrop is amazing @Blue-Jay!

 

[heirloomgal]

Lots of outdoor work today. Planted 5 rows of sunchokes, because I was so impressed with the yield on my one plant. A seed saving and selling friend tells me these are experiencing a surge of popularity right now. She's receiving lots of interest in her collection right now. I think it's a prepper thing since these played a role in keeping people alive during the great depression, survival food in hard times. My hope is to expand my collection into sunchokes - there are some unique varieties with really differing maturity rates, tuber shapes and colors.

I wondered if the rocket had ever made seeds. I guess so. I did look a little more closely and see that the pods are miniscule skinny things. Don't know how to catch 'em so I'll just hope they continue to volunteer next year. These little ones were delicious and tasted like summer.

The kale gets nicer by the day, as the temps descend they get darker & prettier.

A picture of shame. When I really, really like a new fruit or veggie I am careful to not eat it all so I'll have seeds to share. I couldn't help myself with the Schoenbrunn's. They were just too good to not just stand there and eat in the garden. This will probably be all that I have for seed.

The last hurrah for the tingas. We got hit with a light frost last night, and they're still a little part of the trellis flowering. That's 5 months of flowering with no deadheading!

Basil flowers. They take FOREVER to dry down!

I was so proud of myself to come up with this. I rush so much in life, and don't often take my time to think how to do something through. But I was worried about piling all those Lagos spinach heads into a bag and them getting mouldy from crowding, there was a lot. I used elastic bands & an old broken towel rack! I can ratchet the stalks up and higher as they dry and get lighter.

Nicotiana plants are 2 feet apart, one is fine, one is not? Really, aphids don't fly 2 feet?

My new vendor table cloth! I was thinking 'botanical' and after looking over everything I wound up with kale! I might regret this decision as it isn't a popular veggie.....

 

[Pulsegleaner]

More winding down.

I pulled all of the common beans plants yesterday. In theory, they MIGHT have made some more seeds, but, given how many leaves they had lost, the odds were that all pods would abort before maturity, so it was better to take them down now.

Took down most of the mung plants as well. There are only three left out there, two in the wild pot that each have a pod that is close enough to maturity I can hope it will finish (and give me a definitive sample of mature seed from those to compare with the original stuff I planted), and one in the long pot I am leaving be becuase it looks like it has special potential, as one of it's pods is the BIGGEST mung bean pod I have ever seen (generally a mature domestic mung bean pod is about as long as a wooden kitchen match, and as wide around as a wooden shish-kebab skewer, this one is only a little thicker than that, but it's almost DOUBLE the normal length, comparing to the largest and longest common bean pods I have gotten).

Though, no matter HOW much seed I get back this year, I imagine very little of it will go back into the general growing pool, since, despite not being planted so, most came back normal green. Maybe the brown seed coat color I saw in the Afghani material is either recessive or the product of some sort of environmental condition. Though they do display another odd characteristic; compared to "normal" mung beans the pods are super dark colored (when they start they're almost black, and even when full sized, the top half is purplish.

BTW @Zeedman, could you do me a favor and re-post a pic of the seeds of that yellow seeded Philippine mung bean you gave me. I now have TWO samples of large yellow skinned mung beans (yours, and what I assembled from my own pickings) and it would be useful to tell which is which before I plant them).

Moving on, all tomatoes are also basically now all in, except for two in the Phantome du Laos pot I really doubt will get anywhere, since both are only about the size of large blueberries (remember, PDL is a largish tomato, so that's pretty early in the cycle). They haven't really even flattened or developed their pleats/ blobby shape (they still look more or less round in cross section). I suppose it is JUST possible that, by the time the first frost MAKES me pick them, they'll have gotten far enough along to get seeds out of, but I'm not counting on it.

Oh, and the last cucumber vine died down without issuance.

I've also started collecting the seeds from the herbs, at least the ones I can. It seems that the original holy basil may not be as dead as I thought, so I may bring that in as well (in which case I'll have THREE pots with plants of it).
I did collect, dry and sift the Syrian oregano, but there seem to be few, if any seeds. Maybe it doesn't make as many as I thought (the surprise seedling below shows it makes SOME, but maybe it isn't pouring out seed the way I believed it was).

I've got the mint mostly done as well, except I'm a bit unsure as to how to separate the seed from the bits of chaff left. Compared to basil, mint seeds are a lot smaller, and I don't think I can just spread the stuff pinch by pinch on a plate and pull the two apart manually, like I can for that. Maybe sift the "dust" (what I have now, after rubbing the flower calyces with the seeds to powder between my fingers) through a really fine mesh sieve (I'll have to check if mint seeds are large enough to stay in the sieve while the leftover dust goes through.)

As I said, the Southwestern Oregano and Cat Thyme will have to wait until after the frost. And the catmint flowers in the spring, so the seeds are long gone.

 

[Pulsegleaner]

The forecast today threatened frost tonight, so I brought everything in.

That actually included the mung bean with the super size pod, I dug it up as best as I could, added it to the wild pot, and watered it in. Hopefully, that will get it to keep going (or failing that, make it last long enough for the pod to mature, which is really all I need at the moment.)

 

[heirloomgal]

I've got the mint mostly done as well, except I'm a bit unsure as to how to separate the seed from the bits of chaff left. Compared to basil, mint seeds are a lot smaller, and I don't think I can just spread the stuff pinch by pinch on a plate and pull the two apart manually, like I can for that. Maybe sift the "dust" (what I have now, after rubbing the flower calyces with the seeds to powder between my fingers) through a really fine mesh sieve (I'll have to check if mint seeds are large enough to stay in the sieve while the leftover dust goes through.)

The sieve seems like a good idea. The smaller seeds are difficult I've found. and I haven't a good way yet to separate the small bits without losing too much seed (imo) in the process. I do love the hairdryer set on low at a distance, works so well to clean things up, but I've also blown out my fair share of seeds with it too. I'm using it for the amaranth, which has small seed but not that small, and I can see I'm losing a bit. I sometimes ask myself why we need to get the seed so clean, it looks nicer, but I don't think there are many practical benefits for such purity. At least, that's what I tell myself.

 

[heirloomgal]

Changed my mind about the rocket plants, I decided to hang them and see if the seed will still mature. I know lettuce stops dead when it gets picked, so I'm prepared that this may be the same. It'll be an experiment. For plants that started out so small these sure ended up bulky.

I dug up the Iberian White Thyme and am leaving it outdoors to adjust to that, and then I'll bring it in and hope for the best. Didn't want to give it 2 shocks. Sure is odiferous, seriously powerful stuff. @Pulsegleaner the list of herbs in your above post is looking promising at Richter's, at least some of them are there. I'm feeling more and more drawn to medicinally scented plants, or any kind of aromatic really, and want to start experimenting more adventurously with herbs. I appreciate that you gave me some really good leads to follow. Richter's will probably be my first 'winter order'. I know I waited too long to bring my herbs in this year, so first herbal lesson learned.

Harvested my one 'Sonora' pepper plant, the one growing beneath the bean vines. Considering the inherent neglect, the peppers were in good shape and taste excellent. Had my first one on pizza. I really lucked out this year with top quality sweet peppers, 'Ferenc Tender' has turned out to be the best pepper I've ever eaten. Just cutting it up, it already smelled roasted and smoked. This is a full size dinner plate.

DD's made a turkey for the pigs on Thanksgiving.