A Seed Saver's Garden

[ZinHead]

Wowzers, you def know your chemistry. Yes, nickel does increase fungi. I met a fellow years ago who was employed to do a water study and he told me this region adds copper to the public water system to decrease that activity because of the nickel presence. He then mentioned how that added copper is contributing to a significant increase in autoimmunity pathologies in female physiology.

In both drinking water as well as the garden, I generally avoid city water. Most of my water is collected and stored rain.

When you say hydroponic, do you mean as in not in the garden, i.e not in garden soil?

Eda: I love that phrase 'Frontier science'...

When I say hydroponic, I mean using water analysis as a deficiency template to adjust all nutrients, to achieve balance for the species being grown, in a non nutrient medium which supports the plants while providing both aeration & nutrient solution.
There is hundreds of reputable methods on the market.
Too much copper can be worse than too much Nickel.
New methods of water filtration will be on the market in a couple of years which will be both cheaper & superior.

 

[heirloomgal]

When I say hydroponic, I mean using water analysis as a deficiency template to adjust all nutrients, to achieve balance for the species being grown, in a non nutrient medium which supports the plants while providing both aeration & nutrient solution.
There is hundreds of reputable methods on the market.
Too much copper can be worse than too much Nickel.
New methods of water filtration will be on the market in a couple of years which will be both cheaper & superior.

Can you explain a little what it means to use water analysis as a deficiency template? Having a bit of trouble unpacking that, plus, my horticultural chemistry is wildly insufficient!

 

[ZinHead]

Can you explain a little what it means to use water analysis as a deficiency template? Having a bit of trouble unpacking that, plus, my horticultural chemistry is wildly insufficient!

The USDA has lists of preferred pH & nutrient levels for all 17 nutrient for all horticulture species.
For some species which have hundreds or even thousands of cultivars, they have information regarding each cultivar.
Example Vitis vinifera grapes, they have Sulfur, Boron, Copper & salt tolerance levels for thousands of varieties.
Similar thing for apples, peaches & citrus.
With citrus it also includes Chloride.
With nuts like pecan & almond it has more details about Zinc & Nickel.
With apples it will have detailed information about Calcium & if the variety is Calcium Chloride tolerant or sensitive.
Calcium Chloride 9.6pH is very high osmotic & damages many species at very low concentration.
But it is very water soluble & some apple varieties can tolerate it.
Reduces disease & insect problems, while making the trees resistant to late frosts.
Anyway you take that information regarding what you wish to grow.
You look at the analysis of what is & isn't in the water.
You add what is needed to get within the recommended range for the species.
If doing multiple species, then pick things with similar needs.
If growing something that need far more of a nutrient than other plants, then give that species foliar treatments of that nutrient.
An example might be beans need extra Boron & Molybdenum.
Lettuce needing extra Magnesium & Sulfur.
Mustard needing extra Iron.
Corn needing extra Zinc.
Tomatoes needing extra Calcium.
Chard needing extra Manganese.
Cantaloupe needing extra Iron..
As far as cookie cutter formulas anything designed for fruit, nut or grain, will cause greens to bolt.
Greens need less (Potassium, Chloride, Zinc & Boron)
Greens need more (Sulfur, Iron, Manganese, Magnesium & Phosphate)
Does that help any?

 

[heirloomgal]

The USDA has lists of preferred pH & nutrient levels for all 17 nutrient for all horticulture species.
For some species which have hundreds or even thousands of cultivars, they have information regarding each cultivar.
Example Vitis vinifera grapes, they have Sulfur, Boron, Copper & salt tolerance levels for thousands of varieties.
Similar thing for apples, peaches & citrus.
With citrus it also includes Chloride.
With nuts like pecan & almond it has more details about Zinc & Nickel.
With apples it will have detailed information about Calcium & if the variety is Calcium Chloride tolerant or sensitive.
Calcium Chloride 9.6pH is very high osmotic & damages many species at very low concentration.
But it is very water soluble & some apple varieties can tolerate it.
Reduces disease & insect problems, while making the trees resistant to late frosts.
Anyway you take that information regarding what you wish to grow.
You look at the analysis of what is & isn't in the water.
You add what is needed to get within the recommended range for the species.
If doing multiple species, then pick things with similar needs.
If growing something that need far more of a nutrient than other plants, then give that species foliar treatments of that nutrient.
An example might be beans need extra Boron & Molybdenum.
Lettuce needing extra Magnesium & Sulfur.
Mustard needing extra Iron.
Corn needing extra Zinc.
Tomatoes needing extra Calcium.
Chard needing extra Manganese.
Cantaloupe needing extra Iron..
As far as cookie cutter formulas anything designed for fruit, nut or grain, will cause greens to bolt.
Greens need less (Potassium, Chloride, Zinc & Boron)
Greens need more (Sulfur, Iron, Manganese, Magnesium & Phosphate)
Does that help any?

Yes!! Thank you so much! So appreciated!

 

[ducks4you]

Changing subjects...
You have sparked a LOT of interest in successfully saving seeds on this thread. Should you start a 2nd thread where we can discuss and plan on how to SHARE our saved seeds with each other?
I was inspired by this post on my 2022 thread.

Ducks4you for 2022

French cantaloupes~ https://www.saveur.com/charentais-melon-cavaillon/ American Colonial cantaloupes~ https://dannwoellertthefoodetymologist.wordpress.com/2021/09/29/the-anne-arundel-melon-the-colonial-heirloom-melon-hiding-in-plain-sight-in-art-museums/...

www.theeasygarden.com

Post#447 from @Zeedman
"That melon reminds me of the Montreal melon I grew years ago. It did very well here, but I wasn't saving seeds back then... and couldn't find seeds the next year."
Brings home how we lose our seeds, (although Zeedman Did find them from a reputable seed seller later.)

 

[Pulsegleaner]

Changing subjects...
You have sparked a LOT of interest in successfully saving seeds on this thread. Should you start a 2nd thread where we can discuss and plan on how to SHARE our saved seeds with each other?
I was inspired by this post on my 2022 thread.

Ducks4you for 2022

French cantaloupes~ https://www.saveur.com/charentais-melon-cavaillon/ American Colonial cantaloupes~ https://dannwoellertthefoodetymologist.wordpress.com/2021/09/29/the-anne-arundel-melon-the-colonial-heirloom-melon-hiding-in-plain-sight-in-art-museums/...

www.theeasygarden.com

Post#447 from @Zeedman
"That melon reminds me of the Montreal melon I grew years ago. It did very well here, but I wasn't saving seeds back then... and couldn't find seeds the next year."
Brings home how we lose our seeds, (although Zeedman Did find them from a reputable seed seller later.)

The fundamental problem is that the universe doesn't deign to send us our interesting accessions or results with a commensurate timetable as to our ability to PROPIGATE them. Just because something unique and interesting falls into our laps, it doesn't follow that we have the necessary setups or funds to utilize this windfall properly. In and idea world, I suppose, governments and private institutions would inherently see the value in what we do and subsidize us for whatever funds and equipment we needed (If someone came along and offered me a multi-hundred square foot greenhouse with all appropriate equipment and staff for free, or several hundred acres and a dedicated staff I know I certainly wouldn't say no.) But such is not the case, so we just have to muddle along as best as we can. Relying on each other to fill in the gaps is great and noble, but, of course, there is always the fact that two different people can have two different ideas of the trajectory of future selections, and working towards a common goal can become problematic.

 

[ducks4you]

I was really thinking of "swapsies."

 

[Pulsegleaner]

I was really thinking of "swapsies."

But "swapsies" really only works when each party has something the other party wants. That isn't always the case. There have been plenty of times when I wanted something someone else had, but didn't have anything they wanted (since I get back so little seed from my own growing).

On the flipside I've had plenty of people feel that they shouldn't NEED to offer me anything (including covering postage) in order to get seed from me (including a few who also didn't think the fact that they lived outside the country and sending them seed could get me arrested should stop me either.) Also, I've had plenty try and force seed I didn't want ON ME. because they felt so strongly about the value of what they had that they wanted to FORCE everyone to grow it.

 

[ZinHead]

Changing subjects...
You have sparked a LOT of interest in successfully saving seeds on this thread. Should you start a 2nd thread where we can discuss and plan on how to SHARE our saved seeds with each other?
I was inspired by this post on my 2022 thread.

Ducks4you for 2022

French cantaloupes~ https://www.saveur.com/charentais-melon-cavaillon/ American Colonial cantaloupes~ https://dannwoellertthefoodetymologist.wordpress.com/2021/09/29/the-anne-arundel-melon-the-colonial-heirloom-melon-hiding-in-plain-sight-in-art-museums/...

www.theeasygarden.com

Post#447 from @Zeedman
"That melon reminds me of the Montreal melon I grew years ago. It did very well here, but I wasn't saving seeds back then... and couldn't find seeds the next year."
Brings home how we lose our seeds, (although Zeedman Did find them from a reputable seed seller later.)

It's very aromatic & sweet.
However, wasn't very productive in the Sonoran Desert.
Also seemed to be a favorite of rabbits, vole & javelina.

 

[heirloomgal]

Changing subjects...
You have sparked a LOT of interest in successfully saving seeds on this thread. Should you start a 2nd thread where we can discuss and plan on how to SHARE our saved seeds with each other?
I was inspired by this post on my 2022 thread.

Ducks4you for 2022

French cantaloupes~ https://www.saveur.com/charentais-melon-cavaillon/ American Colonial cantaloupes~ https://dannwoellertthefoodetymologist.wordpress.com/2021/09/29/the-anne-arundel-melon-the-colonial-heirloom-melon-hiding-in-plain-sight-in-art-museums/...

www.theeasygarden.com

Post#447 from @Zeedman
"That melon reminds me of the Montreal melon I grew years ago. It did very well here, but I wasn't saving seeds back then... and couldn't find seeds the next year."
Brings home how we lose our seeds, (although Zeedman Did find them from a reputable seed seller later.)

I think a seed swap thread is a fantastic idea! I can share a little info about that topic, though I'm not up on some of the details in regards to isolated states like Alaska. As far as I know most states can freely share most seeds, with probably a few exceptions like cotton. Sometimes corn and potatoes are limited, depending on the rules each state individually has.

Unfortunately I would not be a good choice to start that thread because aside from Blue Jay, who has an import permit, I can't send seeds into the US! There is a complete restriction on peppers and tomatoes into the US by seed traders, and without a USDA import permit, everything else is too. It's really too bad how difficult it is to get seeds across borders right now.