A Seed Saver's Garden

[Pulsegleaner]

It's remarkable the unique produce that you're able to procure in your location @Pulsegleaner. I'm yet to see any heirloom type tomatoes enter the stores, or even farmers markets here yet. But I think the popularity of hybrids eclipsed the OP's decades ago, and people are only now beginning to reacquaint themselves. with the idea of them.

Actually, what I can find now is a lot LESS diverse than what I could find, say, five or ten years ago.

As for the commonness, remember my area is suburban, and upper suburban at that. With us being in relatively easy commuter distance of NYC, that's where a lot of the more affluent work, so they tend to be well heeled, have a "cultured" complex and a desire to be "trendy" . The wider produce is probably for the same reason as the wider selection of cuisines in the restaurants, a bunch of up and coming people with both the desire for exotic experiences and the money to pay for them.

 

[heirloomgal]

Actually, what I can find now is a lot LESS diverse than what I could find, say, five or ten years ago.

That's a surprise, LESS diversity in the produce now as oppose to 10 years ago. What do you suspect is behind that? It seems like the cultural awareness in general, has moved toward more attention to unique edibles than ever before. I suppose, though, knowing about okra or green when ripe tomatoes isn't the same as being interested in actually eating it.

Yes, I think your right about the culture surrounding food choices. There is certainly trendiness in the diets here as there always has been (I've met so many doing paleo and keto, vegan, keto-vegan etc.) but food preference is a bit more of a monolith to budge I think. I am yet to get a single person to try okra, outside my immediate family. And aside from me, nobody is thrilled with it either despite the fact that I cook it skillfully and can completely prevent gloop development if I choose to (I like some sliminess, and I love okra). I've asked the local greenhouses why they don't offer more diversity in the tomato plants and they all say nobody will buy the starts that aren't the famous hybrids - Better Boy, Early Girl, Big Boy, Celebrity, Sweet Million etc.) And they said NOBODY wants green or white or multicolored tomatoes! lol I guess in the end, people really are creatures of habit. They like what they know. I consider myself fairly brave with a pretty wide palate for cuisine, but there are places I simply won't go either. Sushi, for example.

In fact, this crystallizing realization of the last couple years has influenced my seed saving in a significant way. I've always wanted my seed saving practice to be many things, one of which being preservation. But I've come to understand that I need to take context into account to be effective. Some things I grow because I like them, but the idea of *preservation* of them has been a delusion on my part. If there is no dispersal happening, if no one wants seed for goldenberries or okra or rare eggplants, then aside from my own stash, I'm not really preserving anything. This is not the place (climate nor culture) for those things really, and not many people want them. So I've been making more calculated choices of what to keep on 'my ark'. I'm trying to stick to things that have a hope of dissemination. I probably grow too many hot peppers (which is why everything I got for 2024 is no heat to low heat). While there are certainly devoted pepperheads around, they aren't the norm. Most people I know don't cook hot, spicy dishes let alone like them. As much as I enjoy growing the rarer plant varieties, I'm now trying to balance that with what might be enjoyed by others realistically.

Although, I have seen that if a really, really effective, evocative description is written up for a variety, you can override some of the natural aversion people feel toward the unknown.

 

[Pulsegleaner]

I meant less diversity of varieties. And as for the reason, it's mostly sellers discovering which ones sell. For the audience around, there is going to be a lot of "brand loyalty". Many of them aren't going to want any random heirloom, they're going to want the specific one they saw mentioned in their latest general magazine. So most sellers realize they need a "common core" of popular varieties if they want good sales. What doesn't readily sell doesn't get re-grown the next year. Eventually, most vendors selections start to look more or less the same, as they are courting the same market.

And I think a lack of knowledge is also a problem. My doctor (who is of Indian descent) always assumed that nearly all Indian vegetables could not grow here (except bitter melon) so she has never tried any. When I tell her I HAVE grown many of them here by selecting the right types, she is astonished (though, with the size of her garden, she has yet to ACCEPT any of the seed I have offered her.) Working out the difference between "all" and "nearly all", or "none" and "very few", tends to take a lot of trial and error, and a lot of people just aren't willing to put in the effort.

 

[digitS']

We all recognize the value placed on varieties of "fresh" produce that can be shipped long distances and held in storage for great lengths of time. Many of us are not pleased with their flavor quality, etc. but farming entered the Industrial Age of transportation, food processing, and marketing decades ago.

I remember the first "super" market that I was in. Remarkably, the building included a large parking lot for customers' cars. Colorful, small flags hung from ropes guiding the way to the entrance where stepping on a rubber pad automatically opened the door.

The windows allowed sunlight in from floor to roof. In addition, fluorescent lighting filled the interior with light. (Those early florescent tubes gave our skin a bluish cast but better lighting soon arrived.)

Homely packaging was replaced. Produce aisles became colorful. Customers weren't sampling fruit, as they might have at a farmstand. Purchases depended on appearance. First to last, actual produce quality as food had become secondary even to consumers.

_ __ Steve

 

[heirloomgal]

Seed arrival. Happy times. Quite excited to finally try some long keeper storage tomatoes. I also got some Winter Gold Keeper, Giallo Grappoli, Grappoli D'Inverno and Mystery Keeper. I did a happy dance when I found my old Zhiraf tomato packet when looking for 2024 varieties in my seed bin (another storage type) and there was actually 2 seeds left in there! I'm so thrilled that I've finally made my way through nearly all the xtra seeds I had sitting around that were received as freebies (10 years worth), or just never made it into the garden for whatever reason, and got them all planted over the last 2 years. After 2024 there will be no more tomato seed packets that still need to be grown out.

Zhiraf long keeper tomatoes online photo

 

[Pulsegleaner]

Well, the supplier on the senna seems to have changed, so the finds appear to be over for the moment (my total find today was a few Morning Glory seeds and one small, rather fat black cowpea.) Just as well, as dad informed me that from now on I'll have to pay for the bags out of my own pocket (he doesn't think the RIA is worth it, and I can't say I disagree with him.) I put one empty to the side so I can tell when and if things change again (there's no batch numbers on the thing, but there IS an expiration date, and I am hoping they update that with each batch.)

Next time I go back to the other H-mart, the one much further down, I'll check theirs (since they carry the smaller $6 bags, they're probably a different batch.)

 

[heirloomgal]

Well, the supplier on the senna seems to have changed, so the finds appear to be over for the moment (my total find today was a few Morning Glory seeds and one small, rather fat black cowpea.) Just as well, as dad informed me that from now on I'll have to pay for the bags out of my own pocket (he doesn't think the RIA is worth it, and I can't say I disagree with him.) I put one empty to the side so I can tell when and if things change again (there's no batch numbers on the thing, but there IS an expiration date, and I am hoping they update that with each batch.)

Next time I go back to the other H-mart, the one much further down, I'll check theirs (since they carry the smaller $6 bags, they're probably a different batch.)

What's RIA?

 

[Pulsegleaner]

What's RIA?

Return On Investment. (sorry, I should have written ROA)

 

[Beanmad Nanna]

@Zeedman Good fortune smiled upon me and the Rimpaus Green Viktoria peas. In the end only about 6 peas in total sprouted, so I babied them & pinched them a few times in the hopes that the branching would multiply the pod numbers. It worked. I think I harvested just over half a cup of peas at the end of the season. I'm looking forward to growing it again in 2024.

RGV
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Ampillisom Viktoria Ukrainskaya is another pea that did really well in 2023. It doesn't grow as tall as other dried peas I've grown, but it still produced well and it dried down in plenty of time before frost hit.
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@jbosmith I'm not sure if you still peek around here, but the Goroh peas did great! Interestingly, when I shelled them they had funny little blonde tadpole tails! These were fully dried and are not sprouted, it's just a quirk of this variety I guess. Another dried pea which had very nice production. It's also another pea that I didn't give a tall enough trellis for, but I was able to get them to finish flopped over.
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Alaska pea, an oldie but a goodie. I think in truth this more of a soup pea than a shelling pea. Sort of nice that it's a low growing variety. I like to have a mix of all the growing types. I did buy a commercial packet, and the germination was not great; none of the commercial peas I grew in 2023 had great germ rates - probably sitting around for too many years. At least now I have a fresh supply of all the varieties to try again. Little Purple and Sugar Daddy had poor germ rates too.

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One thing that I find about peas, by the second year you're planting them (from seed stock of year 1) they really go BOOM. They seem to have some kind of rebound. It could be that the seeds were old to begin with, but I've just seen it so many times that I'm more inclined to think they acclimatize to local conditions really quickly. I planted Gravedigger peas this year, from a fair year one grow out in 2022, and collected more than 10X the seed I got in the first round. And this was a very hot summer too.

loving seeing the pea varieties too

 

[Beanmad Nanna]

Yes, I love Heritage Harvest! They are in Manitoba, and very similar temps to me but they get more rain. I am in a dry spot, with just a bit more annual rainfall than Arizona, in the US. Ya know, I am still building my collection of heirloom beans (a paltry 85 varieties at this point) so maybe we could swap... I have a lot of Heritage's seeds in my collection. Is it hard to bring in seeds to the UK?

Hi
Technically Beans & Peas fall into notifiable plants for customs & DEFRA/ UK Government.
I think the person sending needs the phyto-sanitary certification, which costs to register etc. with the UK government.

Commercial growers I guess have to be big enough to warrant this.
Certainly my order from Real Seeds (wales) contained seeds from France, Italy & Belgium.
I've also had orders from Italy, France, Belgium - and Germany - recently. All with the company and variety registration printed on the labels aka PLANT PASSPORTS.

Amateur growers aren't able to do this, as the rules stand.