Alternatives to Annuals - Food Forest

[flowerbug]

Profit is what makes the economic world go round. Look at the garden production and what you expect it to produce as food for you. If your garden produces a bumper crop, you can sell or give away the excess crop or keep it, but it still is a profit to you. If you volunteer your time and expertese for a non- profit company or hospital or whatever, and you do not get any monetary compensation or any goods, your profit is a warm fuzzy feeling.

if you haven't noticed the economic system is doing a good job of ruining the only habitable planet we know of.

once you have enough, why would you need more? i have enough. i don't need a profit. i just need to grow enough food and enjoy my life and i'm doing that - at the same time i'm doing all i can to improve what places i can. for free or as low cost as i can do it. and also growing and giving things away because that is how i choose to spend my time.

it's a free country, i choose to not be a slave to the system that is destructive and murderous. many years ago i decided that and have not regretted a single minute since.

 

[Pulsegleaner]

Profit is what makes the economic world go round. Look at the garden production and what you expect it to produce as food for you. If your garden produces a bumper crop, you can sell or give away the excess crop or keep it, but it still is a profit to you. If you volunteer your time and expertese for a non- profit company or hospital or whatever, and you do not get any monetary compensation or any goods, your profit is a warm fuzzy feeling.

Which is why I have never understood the concept of "hard work is its own reward". I can get the reward being something non-monetary, but you still get something. The job being done properly, a fulfillment of a sense of duty, even improved physical fitness. But the idea of doing hard work for no reason except to do hard work makes no sense to me. In fact that is pretty much the definition of a Sisyphean task, work done that accomplishes NOTHING.

By similar thought, I don't believe that there is such a think as true altruism. Even if all you get from doing something for another is a warm fuzzy feeling, again, you a getting SOMETHING. To me a truly altruistic act would have to involve DESTROYING yourself for another's benefit like, say, killing yourself to save a person who hates you and wants you dead from committing and being punished for the crime.

 

[digitS']

I thought it was:

"Chantilly lace, pretty face, pony tail hangin' down
A wiggle in her walk, giggle in her talk, it gonna make the world go around."

The world will go around regardless but it should be a more enjoyable experience if it isn't a ball of rock and ruins.

Steve

 

[baymule]

if you haven't noticed the economic system is doing a good job of ruining the only habitable planet we know of.

once you have enough, why would you need more? i have enough. i don't need a profit. i just need to grow enough food and enjoy my life and i'm doing that - at the same time i'm doing all i can to improve what places i can. for free or as low cost as i can do it. and also growing and giving things away because that is how i choose to spend my time.

it's a free country, i choose to not be a slave to the system that is destructive and murderous. many years ago i decided that and have not regretted a single minute since.

I am not picking a fight with you, we have butted heads and disagreed before. I think you and I can disagree and be civil about it. I am not answering you in anger, just a difference of thoughts.

The world wide economic system certainly is not perfect, but it is much better than it was. The United States has done a great work in cleaning up the factories and things that pollute the environment. Is it perfect? No. Some countries do not work as hard or at all to keep their environment clean, which effects us all. Not holding up our country as a paragon of virtue, but at least we have laws in place and we work to enforce them.

Whether you like it or not, you are a part of that system that you so despise. Every bite of food that you eat that is not grown in your own yard, came from somewhere. The clothes you wear were likely made in another country where labor conditions are not good. The shoes you wear, likewise. I suppose you use electricity, it is nice to have heat when it is cold and fans, air conditioning when it is hot. A refrigerator keeps your food from spoiling, a washing machine and dryer cleans your clothes-that were made by someone working for serf wages. the soap that you bathe with, came from some company, large or small, that is part of that economic system. I could go on and on, but I think you get the idea. So don't be so quick to condemn companies or individuals that produce products at a profit.

We can't all make or grow everything we need. We rely on loggers to cut trees and haul them to a mill. The mill makes lumber, then ships it to a store. A contractor buys it to build a house, along with many other products, produced much the same way. The house is built from components sourced from many places. Then someone buys the house. All along the way, profits have been made. Why would anybody work so hard to produce a product-needed by others-for nothing?

The electricity you use in the house that someone else built, is produced for a profit. Profit is not a dirty word. Socialism and communism are dirty words.

it's a free country, i choose to not be a slave to the system that is destructive and murderous. many years ago i decided that and have not regretted a single minute since.

You are right-this IS a free country, you have the right to your own beliefs and opinions, fought for by people like my Father and Brother, both veterans. You may certainly drop out of the system you describe as destructive and murderous, but you are still using that system. Every. Single. Day. Of. Your. Life. I would say that despite your denials, you are still a slave to the very system that you so despise.

 

[digitS']

Investments in common benefits can be justified in multiple ways.

Of course, we are looking here at individual actions on two acres. It can be considered a model for what one person could do. Generations are likely to benefit from the planting of a tree. Neighbors are likely to benefit.

Seeking benefit to others is an individual's responsibility to community.

Steve

 

[flowerbug]

much of what you assume is wrong and i'm not going to go off on a bunch of tangents to the topic @baymule.

i can get by on very little and work to improve things and continue trying to be less destructive as possible and to also encourage others who are doing likewise. this world need more encouragement and help to repair the damage that has been done already. why is it so threatening to ask people to moderate their greed a little and to think for the longer term? it really doesn't take that much to make a difference.

 

[baymule]

Investments in common benefits can be justified in multiple ways.

Of course, we are looking here at individual actions on two acres. It can be considered a model for what one person could do. Generations are likely to benefit from the planting of a tree. Neighbors are likely to benefit.

Seeking benefit to others is an individual's responsibility to community.

Steve

So true! Planting a tree gives benefits for years, often decades. A shade tree shares it’s cool shade over a fence into the neighbors yard. Nut and fruit trees produce in abundance, giving plenty to share with others.

 

[bobm]

much of what you assume is wrong and i'm not going to go off on a bunch of tangents to the topic @baymule.

i can get by on very little and work to improve things and continue trying to be less destructive as possible and to also encourage others who are doing likewise. this world need more encouragement and help to repair the damage that has been done already. why is it so threatening to ask people to moderate their greed a little and to think for the longer term? it really doesn't take that much to make a difference.

Here is a personal story of what happand to my family's properties in Lithuania after WW2 ... My father owned a very productive cattle and sheep farm . He was also a Veterinarian. My mother owned a large general store in town. She also owned one of the largest farms in her district, our home was one of the largest log homes with logs being a full foot in diameter. Mom had a maid that took care of the house . Her storage barn was the largest in the area with a foot diameter log walls. The farm was hugely productive. My mother's sister also had a productive farm. After the russian communists took over... since my aunt was captured, she was sent to a sewing factory and was force to sew clothing there for 12 hours per day for just her food and clothing and a bed to sleep in and and a meager pay that purchased very meager items. She did not marry or have any kids. My mother went to visit her about 40 years ago . My mother's sister lived in a retirement home, and was a bag of bones and almost unrecognovisable. my mother's maid was appointed the regions commisar. All property markers were destroyed along with all ownership records. Within a year she managed to decrease crop production in half, since everyones' pay was equal no mater how hard or little they worked ... so why bother when they can make vodka out of potatoes that they grew on the side and enjoy that fluid's benefits of happiness. So , within 2 years , the maid managed to burn down my mother's house, then a year later, the barn burned to the ground from the maid's neglect and a drunken stupor of one of the workers taking a break with a Vodka bottle and a cigaret. The now commune farm did not produce enough to pay anyone much less produce enough to feed the workers and nothing for anyone else. Is that what the left is hopeing to achieve in the new progressive world in their mind ?

 

[flowerbug]

no @bobm... don't confuse poltics with the topic of food forests and diversity in planting for the future.

 

[bobm]

no @bobm... don't confuse politics with the topic of food forests and diversity in planting for the future.

NO confusion on my part ... since everyone in charge was re-assigned to menial jobs by the communists or shiped to Siberia ... the new ones in charge of cutting down trees for fire wood to heat the masses' common homes, but most of them had no clue for the ins and outs of management, so the masses chopped down the nearest fruit trees to survive the bitter winter cold. As evidence, my mother's maid ordered the farm workers to chop down hundreds of apple trees to heat the workers' assigned homes. ( no- one owned property )