Am I the last to know?

[davaroo]

I'm a 53 year old well-read, hardcore conservative who realizes what's going on isn't business, but greed and domination. More and more are coming to realize the business climate is rotten to the core in this country, and worldwide. I will not bide my time on this debate, it's too important.

We shall have to disagree on the rotten to the core belief. I know this goes against your leanings, but there are many, many businesses and people running them that are not rotten. That politics and big business might be is a given. "Nothing new under the sun," and all that.

You want to see monopolization and crooked practices? Just go back about a hundred years in our own history. Waaaaaaay before Obama, the New Age and worries over coporate take overs. There are reasons why we have anti-trust laws, today. Good reasons. You aint seen nuttin...

But I admire your stance. Keep up the good fight and dont lose faith.

 

[seedcorn]

[ I know this goes against your leanings, but there are many, many businesses and people running them that are not rotten. That politics and big business might be is a given. "Nothing new under the sun," and all that.

You want to see monopolization and crooked practices? Just go back about a hundred years in our own history. Waaaaaaay before Obama, the New Age and worries over coporate take overs. There are reasons why we have anti-trust laws, today. Good reasons. You aint seen nuttin...

But I admire your stance. Keep up the good fight and dont lose faith.

Crooked practices--get involved in any school event, little league, 4-H, etc. Watch people get favorable rewards because of WHO they are, it's no different than businesses.

Want a different Ag? Spend your $$ on what you want and STOP complaining (people not directed at any ONE individual) about not being able to buy what you want at mass produced items cost. Example--basketball shoes made in America at 3rd world (slave) labor prices. We the consumer forced American jobs out of this country by buying 3rd world nation items and not paying the extra for American goods. The seed industry has the same problem as the small company can not compete w/the mega companies unless we the consumer are willing to pay extra for this.

 

[HiDelight]

Well, my point is I am not on the left, living in a yurt, eating granola - I'm a 53 year old well-read, hardcore conservative who realizes what's going on isn't business, but greed and domination. More and more are coming to realize the business climate is rotten to the core in this country, and worldwide. I will not bide my time on this debate, it's too important.

HEY I RESEMBLE THIS REMARK LOLOL!!!! I am on the left ..eat and love lots of granola and while I do not live in a yurt I thought about it a lot and certianly vacation in one!!!

I am a very liberal left winger and totally agree with your dialog here how about that

I agree with this (below) as well and could not have said it better I dont think you have to be right or left to see this kind of statement as being a valid one! just test Monsanto and see!

Also as a healthcare professional who purposely works for a COOP who does not endulge drug sales people or marketing ..not even allowed thank goodness or I would not work there to have a pen with a drug name on it in the building! ... know that drug companies..seed companies ..whatever if you are one of them you see things differently because that is your bread and butter ...on my end I am constantly battling to provide the best service for my patients and keeping the influence of mass hysteria induced by drug companies at bay ..sorry OP I am rambling off track here but as Rein points out the same thing is going on with seeds as is going on with drugs and it drives me nuts! marketing seeds as heirlooms or individually grown or whatever and really they are controled and contained by a huge company is kind of insulting...just like the mass marketing of drugs is absolutely disgusting to me ...so is the mass marketing of fast food that makes us sick so we need drugs! ..I love our country ..am very very proud to live here in a place where we can say what we want and not be arrested for it ...but yes you can get sued by Monsanto ..just go ahead and test it! try marketing your seeds from plants you grew with their seeds and see what happens!!! LOL!

I am a die hard liberal RN who believes the same thing about business but works very hard to avoid if I can letting it creep into my life by doing what I can on (albiet small and seemingly insignificant level)


"Dave, Monsanto can and will sue you for what grows in your gardens, or in your fields. Have you ever read the Percy Schmeiser saga? It's enlightening to say the least. I see that you work for a major pharmaceutical company - doesn't make you bad, but it definitely will make you look at these battles from a different perspective from many of us. Yes, people have to eat. They also need to eat a variety of food available from many sources. Monsanto is on a bender to make sure they have a lock on the very germ plasm that our food comes from. You may not see that as bad, but many of us do.

I do generally condemn Monsato's business practices. Heck, given today's economic climate, I'm pretty much against most huge corporations (including big pharm and particularly big ag) - and I'm a diehard conservative businesswoman. But that's a political rant for another forum. I will just say if they were doing business in an honest, responsible way I wouldn't feel the way I do, but most are not - yes, a sweeping statement, but it's how I feel.

As for Johnny's and Seminis, please read what they have to say about it (warning it is a pdf). I heard this and investigated it earlier this year. Johnny's is taking the proper steps to rid themselves from Seminis' seeds, and I'm happy with it. I continue to order from them."


thanks for being so artculate I could not have come up with this so early in the morning!

signed a die hard liberal nurse who feels as strongly that drug and seed companies are a huge pain in the butt and do try very hard in some very complicated ways to creep into our lives and control us

my job (and also for another forum) is to keep big drug companies at bay while we figure out what is best for individuals and pick and choose from there ...hoping that some day we will all be using better medicine for people and not succombing to the bait of the drug companies more to the need of the patients...drugs good ..cost of drugs and the way they are marketed bad..

signed a liberal who believes the same thing as a hard core conservative ..no way is this really happening

I purchase a lot of Ed Hume seeds and have my concerns with them ..for the most part I am not sure where my seeds come from as I beg borrow and trade with friends a lot for things I want

and I did use the USDA thing until I started feeling guilty and greedy so i am writing an essay for them and just sending it in as well as sharing with our local foodbank (I do that anyway) and hopefully using the fresh foods I grow to teach people classes in growing and cooking your own food to help people who are out of work and add more nutrition to the table ..hoping that will ease my libral yet impulsive conscience

ps is this place also run by Monsanto or other my friend orders from them all the time and I am hoping no?http://www.nicholsgardennursery.com/



Hi
PS please excuse my grammer and punctuation I am seriously trying to get used to bifocals and not doing well

I am so sorry Nittygrittydirtdigger for the totally intrusive rant but I hope you can find that Nichols is not owned by Monsanto

take care

 

[davaroo]

Crooked practices--get involved in any school event, little league, 4-H, etc. Watch people get favorable rewards because of WHO they are, it's no different than businesses.

Indeed, no one does anything unless there is some gain. For some it is money and power.
For others, it may be the emotional thrill of ideological victory. The evangelist expects to save your soul, the activst to win the day against the bad guys.

But everyone wants to win.

Personally, from what I can see, we are all winners in the seed world. There are probably more varieties now than ever before, and many of the old ones have been reclaimed. It seems the thing to do is obtain all the ones you like, grow them and spread them around yourself. Talk about grass-roots diversity!

Monsanto, at your heart out.

 

[dragonlaurel]

Sorry but you missed some info about this.
Many of the crop varieties our grandparents grew up eating were going extinct. Because the seed companies weren't selling them- just promoting ones they had developed instead. People finally started trying to save the old species.
Now we have a trend towards heirloom varieties. Many people define heirloom varieties as varieties from more than 50 years ago -even if they were hybrids.
Open pollinated is the ones that you save the seeds from it to plant next season and get plants that were like the parents. If you want to do the "survival" supplies, go for open pollinated on all your favorite veggies and fruits.

 

[seedcorn]

my job (and also for another forum) is to keep big drug companies at bay while we figure out what is best for individuals and pick and choose from there ...hoping that some day we will all be using better medicine for people and not succombing to the bait of the drug companies more to the need of the patients...drugs good ..cost of drugs and the way they are marketed bad..

So you want the research by the drug companies to stop the disease, want the drugs, just don't want to pay for the research and the making of the drugs..........just like the seed industry. Where people use to steal genetics and sell it under their own label, that is now being prosecuted and the thieves are all squealing like little pigs....

An excellent plant breeder would develop one commercial line. People would buy a sample, multiply it, and then resell it (& never get permission nor pay a breeder fee). Does anyone on this board see anything wrong w/this? That was the seed industry (vegetable, farm seed, etc) in the 60's-80's. Want your own variety, start with heritage seed (don't start with an improved variety from a breeder) spend rest of your life working on it. I truly wish you well and success. I will be one of the little pigs trying to get your improvements w/out paying for it...........

 

[seedcorn]

Sorry but you missed some info about this.
Many of the crop varieties our grandparents grew up eating were going extinct. Because the seed companies weren't selling them- just promoting ones they had developed instead. People finally started trying to save the old species.
Now we have a trend towards heirloom varieties. Many people define heirloom varieties as varieties from more than 50 years ago -even if they were hybrids.
Open pollinated is the ones that you save the seeds from it to plant next season and get plants that were like the parents. If you want to do the "survival" supplies, go for open pollinated on all your favorite veggies and fruits.

I agree w/everything here, except I'd reword it to: seed companies didn't offer them because no one would buy the old varieties but preferred the improved varieties.

Seed companies offer what they believe people will buy. They are a business and it is not a moralistic endeavor. If they can't sell enough to be economically beneficial to their bottom line, they will quit carrying it.

 

[nittygrittydirtdigger]

I just want to make myself ABUNDANTLY CLEAR about this. I have no problem with Monsanto or anyone else making a fair profit. That's called capitalism and that's what runs this country, right or wrong. Squeezing every last cent of profit, at the expense of morality and fair play is WRONG. Anyone stealing Monsanto's work should be prosecuted. But Monsanto, by virtue of being the biggest bully on the block, does not get prosecuted in turn for the illegal acts they commit.

And even tho it's very off-topic, I will comment that I think that the reason drugs are so freaking expensive in this country is that American drug companies do most of the r & d for the whole world. Nonetheless, aggressive marketing of drugs is expensive and dangerous. Someday that house of cards will fall, too.

 

[seedcorn]

I just want to make myself ABUNDANTLY CLEAR about this. I have no problem with Monsanto or anyone else making a fair profit. That's called capitalism and that's what runs this country, right or wrong. Squeezing every last cent of profit, at the expense of morality and fair play is WRONG. Anyone stealing Monsanto's work should be prosecuted. But Monsanto, by virtue of being the biggest bully on the block, does not get prosecuted in turn for the illegal acts they commit.

And even tho it's very off-topic, I will comment that I think that the reason drugs are so freaking expensive in this country is that American drug companies do most of the r & d for the whole world. Nonetheless, aggressive marketing of drugs is expensive and dangerous. Someday that house of cards will fall, too.

Here in lies the problem. Visit Monsanto, see the research that is done that doesn't work. They still have to pay for that, so the things they do sell pay for research of successes and failures..... Please, don't put me in the PRO Monsanto camp as I hate what is happening to the seed industry but it isn't just Monsanto...it's Dow, Dupont, syngenta, Baier, etc...... Monsanto is just an easy target. Plus Ag had to retrain farmers to be honest and stop stealing genetics and they didn't like it all......it's always been illegal.

Point 2 is yes, yes they do. They have a program to pay for new wells for anyone that can show contamination from one of their chemicals. They even paid for new wells where the farmer filled his tank from the well, dumped the chemical into the tank and left the hose in to back fill the well.......talk of STUPID!!!!!!! Monsanto still paid for the new well..... They are being sued constantly. In fact Dupont (one of the world's largest chem companies) is suing them as we type over the fact that Monsanto is too large (dupont is larger). Kettle calling pot black....

 

[big brown horse]

Well, my point is I am not on the left, living in a yurt, eating granola - I'm a 53 year old well-read, hardcore conservative who realizes what's going on isn't business, but greed and domination. More and more are coming to realize the business climate is rotten to the core in this country, and worldwide. I will not bide my time on this debate, it's too important.

"I am not on the left, living in a yurt, eating granola -"Reinbeau, you funny!

I completely agree with you that the business climate is rotten to the core in this country and YES this debate is one not to be taken sitting down.

Follow the dollar y'all... If anything else would you (in general) eat anything that has been treated over and over with ROUND UP? BE HONEST!