Back to Eden Gardening

[thistlebloom]

No, I don't. I live in podunk WV and even here I'm sure there are some out there who want to douse poison on everything that lives and breathes, just not many of them in my area of the state. And I still ask.

I'd ask when you phone them about the hay...just ask about how many weeds are in the hay and they will either say they have fairly clean fields with a few weeds or they will say they spray for them. If they don't fall for that one, ask them outright if they use herbicides on their hay fields.

She'll be buying from a feedstore, which more than likely, in fact 99.9% surely - buys from a hay broker. The hay broker probably actually deals with the farmers, but in my experience feed stores know very little about the chain of supply, who grew what or what type of weeds and what not are in the hay, and may just tell you what they think you want to hear.

Whew! That was one long sentence!

 

[Beekissed]

She'll be buying from a feedstore, which more than likely, in fact 99.9% surely - buys from a hay broker. The hay broker probably actually deals with the farmers, but in my experience feed stores know very little about the chain of supply, who grew what or what type of weeds and what not are in the hay, and may just tell you what they think you want to hear.

Whew! That was one long sentence!

I agree 100% with that....there's no way to find out when sourced that way, not if you want the truth. Any way you can source it more locally, from smaller family owned farms?

 

[henless]

Oh Bee, your garden looks wonderful!!! It is doing so much better this year than in the previous few years. That hay is doing wonders as a mulch. I like the way it looks too.

 

[Beekissed]

Oh Bee, your garden looks wonderful!!! It is doing so much better this year than in the previous few years. That hay is doing wonders as a mulch. I like the way it looks too.

Me too! We can walk in there barefoot or get down on our knees and it's all soft, we don't get dirt on us and weeds are VERY apparent. So far, all the weeds I have seen are a few hay seeds sprouting, which are easily pulled.

I'll never go back from the hay...it's the bomb diggity. No dirt or mold spores splashed up on plants when it rains, no areas of soil exposed to catch a carpet of weed seeds. It's delightful.

I'm even having WAY less pests, except for more horn worms, for some reason. Less squash beetles, less Jap beetles, etc.

 

[ninnymary]

I agree 100% with that....there's no way to find out when sourced that way, not if you want the truth. Any way you can source it more locally, from smaller family owned farms?

She'll be buying from a feedstore, which more than likely, in fact 99.9% surely - buys from a hay broker. The hay broker probably actually deals with the farmers, but in my experience feed stores know very little about the chain of supply, who grew what or what type of weeds and what not are in the hay, and may just tell you what they think you want to hear.

Whew! That was one long sentence!

That is correct. I get my chicken feed from a store in Petaluma. Outside of it they have a hugh open barn with all sorts of different hays, straw, alphalfa, etc. I doubt if the cashiers or the young men loading it up would know anything of how it was grown.

Mary

 

[so lucky]

I have a couple concerns about the use of hay/straw in the garden. Way back, I was told that you should use straw rather than hay due to the amount of seeds left in the hay. This may only be a factor if the hay is not very thick?
The point that the hay is finer and decomposes faster is a plus. I get some pretty big stalks in my straw, and I don't like that.
I do have problems with voles and moles. No cat. DH is kinda against cats the last few years. But I don't think the problem is unsurmountable.
Also, every piece of advice about controlling certain bugs/diseases says to clear away all the debris so the bugs/bacteria don't over winter. Does that mean you get rid of all the hay/straw? Till it in every fall and start fresh in the spring? I thought one of the tenets of back to Eden and no-till was to leave the mulch in place and plant in it. I've had problems with harlequin bugs and stink bugs, and I presume they both over-winter.
(although, I have to admit this year I am picking them off and putting in a can of soapy water, along with the JBs, and this seems to be lessening the invasion.) I read that squashing the stink bugs releases a pheromone that attracts more. So maybe I'm doing at least one thing right.
Bee, your garden does look beautiful this year. I'm glad this is working for you!

 

[Beekissed]

Also, every piece of advice about controlling certain bugs/diseases says to clear away all the debris so the bugs/bacteria don't over winter. Does that mean you get rid of all the hay/straw? Till it in every fall and start fresh in the spring? I thought one of the tenets of back to Eden and no-till was to leave the mulch in place and plant in it.

That's because most of the advice comes from people who believe in tillage, poisoning their food and using commercial fertilizers all the time. You won't find much advice like that coming from the more organic crowd....when using mulch of any kind, it's impossible to "clear away all debris".

What they don't tell folks is that what hides pest bugs also hides and helps reproduction of predator bugs and beneficial nematodes. I didn't find the wood chips to be very good for that at all...each year I had them, the more pests and fungal infections I had in the garden~could be because I added leaves in the fall that one year, so I can't fully blame the wood chips.

The hay seems to have changed all of that and I'm anxious to see if that continues down through the seasons or if this first season is just a one off.

As far as the hay seed sprouting...it does in any spots where the hay has thinned. Just like any other seed, it needs to reach soil and also have sun in order to sprout, so if you can keep the hay thick enough, you don't have this problem. Another cool thing is,unless that hay sprout grows tall enough to make seed, it's not going to make more of its own kind, unlike most other weeds in the garden that seem to reproduce whether they go to seed or not.

And straw has seed in it too...can't tell you how many times I've had oats sprout where I've had straw put down for this or that purpose.

 

[ninnymary]

Bee, I've been looking on CL for hay and there are so many different types! All wanted a minium number of bales purchased. I sent an email to one asking if he would sell be just one even though his ad had a mimum order. He is willing to sell me just one!

He said his hay is 3 string bales cut from very clean fields. It is a mix of Rye, Red Oat, and other natural grasses. It could be certified organic if he choose to pay the high fees which he doesn't. I think it's $9 a bale but I don't really care about the cost since I only need one. Is this a good type of hay to get?

Mary

 

[Beekissed]

Bee, I've been looking on CL for hay and there are so many different types! All wanted a minium number of bales purchased. I sent an email to one asking if he would sell be just one even though his ad had a mimum order. He is willing to sell me just one!

He said his hay is 3 string bales cut from very clean fields. It is a mix of Rye, Red Oat, and other natural grasses. It could be certified organic if he choose to pay the high fees which he doesn't. I think it's $9 a bale but I don't really care about the cost since I only need one. Is this a good type of hay to get?

Mary

Yes, that's good and you should keep his number. Man, I can't believe what you guys pay for hay out there!!! The most expensive hay here and that's top of the line horse quality hay, would go $4 a bale but even then they'd be lucky to get that...they'd have to live alongside VA to get that price. Usual hay price here is anywhere from $2.50-$3.50 per bale and down to $1-$1.50 for mulch hay. That's getting more rare nowadays, though...usually mulch hay is going for around $2.00 a bale since they learned that people are using it more and more on gardens. Used to a person could barely give away mulch hay.

 

[Finding God in the garden]

Well, I found out those "milkweed bugs" attacking my potato plants were actually Colorado potato beetles in larva form. They look similar to milkweed bugs and I only knew what adult Colorado potato beetles looked like. I just came in from the garden and I think I now have a striped cucumber beetle infestation in my potatoes. There are too many to kill all of them. I'm starting to believe may be switching to hay might be worth it. I'm thinking about it. It's not like I can't switch back if things get really bad.

Bee, did you try to remove any of the wood chips before adding the hay? Also, do you think using hay is sacrificing nutrition content since hay roots are not as deep as tree roots and are not able to get to deeper nutrients?