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[Beekissed]

My goodness Bee! You are going to be so busy and going to sleep very well. That's going to be a big transformation to your garden. Sounds lovely. Post pics.

Mary

Will do! Bought some Rudbeckia, bee balm, echinacea(all root stock) and butterfly bush today....the beginning of my perennial garden. Will also be buying way more asparagus and rhubarb this year, hoping to get large beds of each established....both are favorites of mine.

Will need to get the rhubarb into a situation that has more evenly distributed moisture this year....last year they were the most beautiful rhubarb I'd ever grown or even seen, then we had tons of rain followed by high heat and humidity, which killed all but 2 of the plants and I still don't know if those will make it to spring. It's this loggy clay soil, which holds too much water but is so dense roots can't penetrate it when the water is gone into the depths of the hard pack.

Will try to get them into a raised bed this year and mix in something that will help...other than compost, which I've been laying in thick and heavy for years now, what can I mix into that raise bed soil/compost to improve drainage and aeration there?

 

[flowerbug]

Will do! Bought some Rudbeckia, bee balm, echinacea(all root stock) and butterfly bush today....the beginning of my perennial garden. Will also be buying way more asparagus and rhubarb this year, hoping to get large beds of each established....both are favorites of mine.

Will need to get the rhubarb into a situation that has more evenly distributed moisture this year....last year they were the most beautiful rhubarb I'd ever grown or even seen, then we had tons of rain followed by high heat and humidity, which killed all but 2 of the plants and I still don't know if those will make it to spring. It's this loggy clay soil, which holds too much water but is so dense roots can't penetrate it when the water is gone into the depths of the hard pack.

Will try to get them into a raised bed this year and mix in something that will help...other than compost, which I've been laying in thick and heavy for years now, what can I mix into that raise bed soil/compost to improve drainage and aeration there?

pretty much any organic material you can scrounge up should help with that, chunks of bark, rotting wood, you have woodlands and burn wood (at least i think you do ) so anything you get from that process should be usable in there. well decayed chicken litter, sheepie droppins, ...

 

[ninnymary]

If you are making raised beds and buying soil for them, I would think that would be enough. Then amend each year with compost. But I've little experience with raised beds.

Mary

 

[Beekissed]

pretty much any organic material you can scrounge up should help with that, chunks of bark, rotting wood, you have woodlands and burn wood (at least i think you do ) so anything you get from that process should be usable in there. well decayed chicken litter, sheepie droppins, ...

If you are making raised beds and buying soil for them, I would think that would be enough. Then amend each year with compost. But I've little experience with raised beds.

Mary

That's the problem...where I planted them was just full of all those things, well composted and rich, about 2 ft thick that composted down further to around 10 in. thick. They didn't even make contact with our clay soils last year, but still got some kind of fungal infection all the same and died. I have two survivors out of 8 plants.

I'm beginning to think that compost isn't the answer, no matter the source. The plants were the healthiest, largest and most juicy I've ever seen for awhile, but then that heavy rain followed by 100* weather seemed to just cook them. I think I need some kind of amendment that doesn't hold water as well as all this compost. I can add sand but I don't think it works like that and I don't know how much I'd have to add to even make a difference.

I'd hate to add anything like vermiculite or perlite to the garden, but was wondering if there wasn't some kind of natural substance that would distribute water in the way they seem to do without affecting the pH or nutrient uptake.

 

[thistlebloom]

Vermiculite and perlite are natural substances.
Are they in full day sun? My rhubarb grows abundantly on the north side of my garden shed. It gets full sun in the morning until probably 11:00, then some again around 4 or 5.

Several years ago I took out some rhubarb and dumped it in the woods in my "long term" compost pile. Which is to say the pile I never do anything with that is mostly woody rough stuff. The next summer it was flourishing out there all neglected.
So maybe make it a deep litter bed like you do for your sheep and chickens. ??

 

[Beekissed]

Vermiculite and perlite are natural substances.
Are they in full day sun? My rhubarb grows abundantly on the north side of my garden shed. It gets full sun in the morning until probably 11:00, then some again around 4 or 5.

Several years ago I took out some rhubarb and dumped it in the woods in my "long term" compost pile. Which is to say the pile I never do anything with that is mostly woody rough stuff. The next summer it was flourishing out there all neglected.
So maybe make it a deep litter bed like you do for your sheep and chickens. ??

That's what they were in last year...basically layers of different compostables~leaves, hay, chicken compost, etc. Full sun all day long.

Do you think if I added perlite to the raised bed compost that I could keep the rhubarb from being overly wet all the time?

 

[thistlebloom]

That's what they were in last year...basically layers of different compostables~leaves, hay, chicken compost, etc. Full sun all day long.

Do you think if I added perlite to the raised bed compost that I could keep the rhubarb from being overly wet all the time?

Maybe... is there a place you can put them where they have afternoon shade?
I know they are supposed to be full sun, but mine sure does well in part shade. And the one in the woods is thriving on neglect. I have super fast draining soil though. Are you pretty sure it's declining due to too much water in the soil?
I hope you can find a way to get it to grow. I know how much you like it. I'd be happy to share a division of mine with you if you'd like to try growing some in a different location.

 

[flowerbug]

That's what they were in last year...basically layers of different compostables~leaves, hay, chicken compost, etc. Full sun all day long.

Do you think if I added perlite to the raised bed compost that I could keep the rhubarb from being overly wet all the time?

the raised bed will help during the wet part of the season, but if you get really hot dry spells you will have to remember to give them a shot of water once in a while. you don't want the roots to cook and a raised bed may allow that to happen if there isn't enough clay in the soil to hold the moisture up that high.

since you didn't give any additional information on how you treated those plants during the hot dry part of last summer i can't tell for sure what happened.

i do know that here i have rhubarb growing in mostly clay other than the surface litter and it is well drained. the plants have not all died. they do die back in the middle of summer if it gets really hot and dry and i don't get them watered but they return in the fall and then the next spring without any real care other than me removing the grasses which try to grow through them from the neighboring large ditch. hmm, as far as temperature goes we rarely get above 100F. mid-90s is not too rare for a few days here or there, not usually prolonged.

my suggestion is to pile your organic materials and mix some of that clay subsoil in with it and then see what happens this year. also leave a section alone other than piling up materials and perhaps you could also just pile up the clay to give enough drainage and more stability to the soil moisture and temperature (so let's say make the pile at least two feet across and about a foot and a half above grade which should allow the pile to settle and still be above the worst of the wet).

then let's see what happens.

the plants that have already survived may now be established well enough to survive anything. they can get pretty substantial root systems. i've dug up some one year clumps that i could barely move with the wheelbarrow (let alone get them lifted into it to move).

 

[flowerbug]

...
I hope you can find a way to get it to grow. I know how much you like it. I'd be happy to share a division of mine with you if you'd like to try growing some in a different location.

yes, try a part-shade spot if it gets that hot and dry, but read my above suggestions too.

if you were local @Beekissed you could come get all the rhubarb starts you'd like. we have plenty. i just can't afford any more mailings this year until the fall comes around.

 

[Beekissed]

Maybe... is there a place you can put them where they have afternoon shade?

Pretty much the whole garden gets shade towards evening, but not usually until around 5 pm. I'm going to plant some starts this year around the cabin, which will give them afternoon shade, morning sun.

We've had some really wet spring and summers, but this last summer we had a drought time about mid-August through Sept. The soils were still moist around the rhubarb, but they had already been effected by the constant rains, so when it got really hot they seemed to just cook and die with the soils still nice and damp around the roots.

This year they will be shaded somewhat by other plants in places.