Bean cross-pollination

[Suzee]

Hi,
This year my daughter planted Trionfo Violetto - purple pole beans right next to her blue lake pole beans in her enormous garden. I swiped a huge bag of them to eat and, hopefully plant. I’m wonder if they crossed with the blue lakes and what that might mean. I like both types, but really love the purples as they are so tender even when they get huge! Any wisdom out there?

 

[flowerbug]

they may cross but you won't notice until you replant.

if you can remember what the seeds look like for each type when planting then after harvesting the next season discard any seeds which do not look true to type and also during the next growing season remove any plants which are giving off-type beans. that will help limit the possible problems, but it will never be zero chance because sometimes crosses can happen that do not exhibit changes to either the seed coat or the plant.

 

[flowerbug]

if you can get a good close up picture of the seeds of the Trionfo Violetto i would love to see them. i'm always looking for possible parents of Purple Dove (a purple bush bean).

 

[flowerbug]

i should have mentioned in my first reply that common beans are generally self-pollinating and so most of what you get back from plantings should be close to what you planted.

the times there are some bees or other pollinators around they can do some cross breeding for you but it should not be the majority of what you harvest.

when growing the plants for the next year pay attention to the leaves and growth habits of the plants and remove any plants which do not match the rest. other hints that a cross has happened can be different colored flowers or different colors or shapes of the bean pods.

 

[Branching Out]

if you can get a good close up picture of the seeds of the Trionfo Violetto i would love to see them. i'm always looking for possible parents of Purple Dove (a purple bush bean).

I wish every on-line seed catalogue would include three things: a photo of the bean seed, a photo of what the pod looks like, and also a photo of the blossom. That would make it so much easier to get to know the bean and its characteristics-- especially for someone like me, who is new to this.

 

[flowerbug]

I wish every on-line seed catalogue would include three things: a photo of the bean seed, a photo of what the pod looks like, and also a photo of the blossom. That would make it so much easier to get to know the bean and its characteristics-- especially for someone like me, who is new to this.

and a scale in the picture so you have some idea of how big they are.

 

[Zeedman]

I wish every on-line seed catalogue would include three things: a photo of the bean seed, a photo of what the pod looks like, and also a photo of the blossom. That would make it so much easier to get to know the bean and its characteristics-- especially for someone like me, who is new to this.

Agreed... but for obvious reasons, most seed companies have little interest in helping their customers to save their own seed.

The flower color is especially important when dealing with crossed seed. Destroying plants with the wrong flower color quickly - while still in the bud stage - allows you to potentially eliminate some crosses before they further contaminate the current generation. That can save you years of selection; I've been able to purify a couple crossed runner bean lines in as little as 2 generations.

The appearance of the pod can be useful too, especially if the flower colors are all the same. This too could potentially save years of time - but is less practical. The crossed plants would still need to be rogued out; but at that point, their pollen may have already contaminated other plants. Provided the growing season is long enough, after removing the crossed plants, you could remove all pods & open flowers from a plant or two of those whose pods match the desired type. Any new pods which form should have a reasonable chance of producing pure seed.

It sometimes might be easier to just bag & tag one flower cluster on each plant, number them, and keep good observations throughout the season. At year's end, only save those which matched all desired characteristics. Grow that seed the next year, with the same procedures; if multiple lines were saved, try to grow at least 2 plants of each, to watch for recessives. Seeds which have the desired traits for two successive generations are highly likely to be stabilized.

 

[heirloomgal]

Having spent the last year building an online seed catalogue I can make a really good guess why there are no blossom images. Money . That was my intention with my own website, make it as much of an informational database as it was a catalogue. I wanted for each listing to have multiple images to show the various stages of growth, which is important for identifying if your plant is true to type. Beans, tomatoes, even peppers can all have unique things to look for in early foliage as well as blossoms. I wanted the website to also be an resource for seed saving, and some tips and tricks to encourage people to save their own seeds.

What prevented me from doing that - in the way I envisioned anyway - and being even more extensive was the cost. I have to basically 'store' images on the website platform and photos take up a lot of space in storage. I'd have to pay a large amount of money per year to afford all those photos to be stored on the platform, on top of the other costs of keeping a website up. I don't know how other seed companies evaluate what the cost is worth to them, depending how their site was built, but some of them probably don't want the extra cost. I always wondered why seed companies seemed so ‘cheap’ with photos? I mean, you’re selling a product? Seems like the more photos the better. Seeds need to become a more lucrative financial endeavour I think to make the cost of multiple photos more common.

 

[Blue-Jay]

if you can get a good close up picture of the seeds of the Trionfo Violetto i would love to see them. i'm always looking for possible parents of Purple Dove (a purple bush bean).

Most likely the seeds to Trionfo Violleto are very likely some shade of light solid tan or beige without any markings. Most puple podded bean seeds are colored like this. I think that most purple pods and the seed color are probably genetically linked that is why the coloration of most purple podded beans are colored that way. The great exception were the Robert Lobitz original purple podded beans with bluish or puplish blush on the seeds.

 

[Suzee]

if you can get a good close up picture of the seeds of the Trionfo Violetto i would love to see them. i'm always looking for possible parents of Purple Dove (a purple bush bean).

I will do that tomorrow. They are in the utility rm drying. They are rather large and white. I’ll get you a pic with a ruler