Bentonite clay soil?

[wyoweed]

My back yard is solid bentonite,doesn't grow anything but some scraggly weeds. My description is this. Sahara in the summer and the tundra in the winter. Gumbo in the spring and concrete in the summer.
I'm scared that if I add sand it will just turn into worse concrete. I've read about green sand. Still don't know what it is. It would take 3 belly dumps to add enough compost to make it decent soil. Thinking of raised beds and trees. Cover the rest with pavers and gravel. The shear size of the yard just intimidates me. Plus zone 4 with special considerations. No big green lawn for me!

 

[patandchickens]

I've read about green sand. Still don't know what it is.

It's a high-potassium soil amendment. Irrelevant to your life at this point in time. Ignore it

It would take 3 belly dumps to add enough compost to make it decent soil. Thinking of raised beds and trees. Cover the rest with pavers and gravel. The shear size of the yard just intimidates me. Plus zone 4 with special considerations. No big green lawn for me!

No big green lawn will leave you with LOTS more time to do other things Pavers and gravel on part of the yard, at least for now, sounds like a good plan. Consider laying a durable-grade landscape fabric under the gravel so it doesn't sink into the clay and disappear.

For parts where you want to grow things, basically you need to buy and/or make decent soil.

Maybe buy however much triple mix (or whatever it's called locally - mixture of so-called topsoil and one or more types of aged organic matter) you can afford, to make some raised beds to grow things in this year.

Then work on scrounging as much organic matter to compost as you can possibly manage. Steal neighbors' lawn clippings and leaves <g>, see if you can haul livestock manure from <somewhere> in bags or trash cans, see if any tree trimming companies ever want to unload half a truck of chippings in your driveway, whatever you can manage for cheap or free. Make one or more areas/piles and let it sit til next year, then you will be able to plant at least *something* in it, and as you work on it over the years it will gradually turn into better and better soil.

Good luck, have fun,

Pat

 

[digitS']

WyoWeed, I was recently reading on another forum what a Wyoming gardener (yes, there are others ) was saying about what she does to loosen her soil. First of all, apparently your concern regarding the addition of sand is well-founded. It may make things worse.

This gardener uses chicken grit when she transplant into her soil. I had to think that this has GOT to be expensive! The 2nd thought was, does the size of chicken grit compare to sand?

I still don't know but I've learned that for construction purposes - anything smaller than 2mm is considered sand. Anything larger is gravel.

Pea gravel may not be any sort of exact term, at all. But, products called pea gravel are often used in landscaping and walkways. What I find on the web is that it is apparently larger than 5mm - from there on up seems to be a matter of supplier. One source talked about their pea gravel as smaller than 3/4 inch. Thats big stuff and about 20mm. Others had 3/8 inch products - which would be about 10mm. This might be a fairly common size for something they call pea gravel.

I see that McGary, in "Rock Garden Design and Construction," talks about pea gravel as a component in "rock garden soil." I know you are not trying to establish a "rock garden" but what you have to work with now may be at the other end of the spectrum.

The point I'm getting to is that if you use pea gravel of a fairly small size for your paths, this may ultimately be a good amendment for your clay soil. It may make some sense to check on this locally.

I live in a 100 year old home. One side yard was at one time a pea gravel covered driveway. The entire yard is very rocky ground and altho' I know it is down there - that pea gravel has completely disappeared from the surface. It may not be adding much to benefit the lawn grass but I honestly don't think that it is causing it any harm, either.

. . . just my 2.

Steve

 

[wyoweed]

Thanks for the replies. Our local ag agent told me that we have no organic material in the soil here. To make a lawn or garden here's what he suggested. Bring in 1 foot of manure in spring,rip as deep as possible,plant winter wheat. In the fall repeat. Next spring bring in the manure,rip,than plant grass. Good idea but who has access to that much manure?
I do have access to the community compost though! Last year they only allowed me 2 pickup loads. Plus it don't have any manure added to it. But I sure can get started on a smaller scale.

 

[jlmann]

We have clay here too and it has been a challenge. The big thing is to keep adding anything organic - grass clippings, leaves, manure etc. . I also try to keep it tilled as much as possible to keep it from getting a "crust" on top especially after rain or watering. The sand is probably a bad idea because it can actually clog clay soils and make drainage worse. It seems clay is a more labor intensive garden soil, but once you get a plot established it's not so bad. Good luck

 

[patandchickens]

Adding gravel to clay is not generally such a hot idea IME. For the same reason as adding sand to clay isn't. You just get a better grade of concrete in the summer. Come visit the gravelled-over clay in front of my horse shed and you will see what I mean

The deal with putting sand or grit or gravel into planting holes is NOT to amend the soil as such, it's to create a drainage 'soakaway' under the plant so it's in less of a clay bathtub. Helps a bit in terms of avoiding root rot in clayey soils, but still won't let you plant in pure clay, you know? So I do not think it's likely to be relevant here.

Good idea but who has access to that much manure?

Anyone who stops by to ask at a local stable or horse farm. Getting some chickens, if you don't have them already, also helps

Or, you know you can just buy some, have it delivered, there you go. It's not generally very expensive.

Sometimes this time of year you can get moldy hay for real cheap, too. It won't compost terribly well without adding some manure or lawn clippings or commercial high-nitrogen fertilizer, but it is a lot better than nothing.

Really, any and ALL organic matter you can obtain, of any description whatsoever, will be valuable to you

I do have access to the community compost though! Last year they only allowed me 2 pickup loads. Plus it don't have any manure added to it. But I sure can get started on a smaller scale.

There is nothing magic about manure. Anything else will do as well, especially if already composted. The most common substitute for manure in composting is lawn clippings (from lawns not treated with persistant herbicides).

Good luck, have fun,

Pat

 

[wyochristina2623]

My back yard is solid bentonite,doesn't grow anything but some scraggly weeds. My description is this. Sahara in the summer and the tundra in the winter. Gumbo in the spring and concrete in the summer.
I'm scared that if I add sand it will just turn into worse concrete. I've read about green sand. Still don't know what it is. It would take 3 belly dumps to add enough compost to make it decent soil. Thinking of raised beds and trees. Cover the rest with pavers and gravel. The shear size of the yard just intimidates me. Plus zone 4 with special considerations. No big green lawn for me!

Hey, I have found in my garden experience I have only been doing it for 4 yrs now and found I can take a bare spot of clay ground and horse poop and if you can manage to get one plant to grow that will start biologic processes to start happening. I have this spot of what is red clay and over the years the wind has blown top soil from everywhere else into it and there is only 4 inches of soil on it but pepper plants love it way more than my actual garden. I have strawberry's, oregano, yarrow and rhubarb in there and now peppers. When I planted such a random assortment of stuff I figured they wouldn't make it through winter boy I was wrong. But at least in my area top soil to buy is cheap and then you can start your plant and biological process in it using worm castings, manue, if you use horse it needs to be aged like 2 yrs, blood meal is magic, ash, and food waste. Get your area prepared if it's windy, with sides to keep ur stuff where you want it LOL and just start some plants. If you like cilantro it grows fast and easy, stuff that is not picky and you can even use cover crop to get the soil microbes and nutrients moving. These are all things I have found help with the clay issues in my area of wyoming. Most gardening tips and stuff are not made for Wyoming it truly is like no where else that's for sure! These two photos are literally 10 ft away from each other.

 

[R2elk]

The trouble here with bentonite soils is that it swells up with the alkali water. The one thing that seems to help it is the addition of gypsum. You have to be careful and get the one (calcium sulfate) that is for gardening and not the one that contains cement.

It is also a good soil additive to combat blossom end rot in tomatoes.

 

[ducks4you]

Interesting when we resurrect old threads.
I, too, have clay soil, surrounded by various depths of loess. My big garden bed, ~12' x 35', was surprisingly full of clay when I first started gardening a portion of it, as it had been used before in the property's 115 year history.
It was where plants went to die.
I have discovered that used stall bedding takes a good 2 years to break down to be viable. Certainly compost tea and manure tea can speed it up some.
I grew sweet potatoes in a 100 gal Rubbermaid water tank a few years ago. Not such a great harvest, but I planted them in one year old used stall bedding. The resulting soil at end of season was rich and lovely and worthy of selling as a product.
IMHO, anybody with clay soil should start small, put down cardboard and build a simple raised bed, that is 4-6" wide timber (or other, like using a small metal livestock water tank,) and purchase garden soil the first year.
Make your compost or used animal bedding (ONLY vegetarian animals!!--don't put dog/cat poo there!!) pile and let the weather break it down for Next year.
Although you cannot grow directly in used coffee grounds--WIFEZILLA (RIP) and I Tried this and it doesn't work!--
Many restaurants will put Their used coffee grounds out in their kitchen gardens or in their compost piles.
They Do break down and it's a shame to send used coffee grounds to a landfill, since they come from an edible product. They also are a free resource that helps break up the soil somewhat.
ANY compostable products that you bury will break down quicker. A spade can be your best friend.