fight against monsanto made it to the supreme court this week

[seedcorn]

Jared, appreciate your view.

There are alternatives, people just don't want them. Performance sells, especially in a high volume, low margin industry.

 

[Jared77]

Jared, appreciate your view.

There are alternatives, people just don't want them. Performance sells, especially in a high volume, low margin industry.

Thank you I really appreciate your support. I knew I went out on a limb posting that but its really how I feel. As I said its not as simple as we'd all like it to be.

 

[seedcorn]

Understand as I've been on limb with adversaries lighting trunk on fire with coon dogs waiting for me to land......

 

[bj taylor]

jared 77 i agree w/most of what you say. my problem is i can't always be reasonable about some things. i don't know if the farmer's saw the train coming at them full speed or not. to think that they are no longer allowed to save their seed in order to plant for next year sounds like a recipe for famine to me. we, the gardeners/plant people of the world have to talk about this to anyone willing to listen. we aren't right about everything - but we have given the situation some thought which is more than many people do when it comes to pondering the source of our food.

we have to push back against this tide sweeping us into dependency on mega corporations. i am nearing 60 and don't know how to can. i have never killed an animal for food (except fish). i haven't until last year grown any of my own food. that is nothing less than criminal on my part. my mother canned everything. my parent's generation knew how to do so much that has almost been lost to us as a people. this forum is, in my opinion, going to be a life saver for people in the times ahead.

God willing, for the first time in my life, i'm going to can this year. i am going to gut up and process a few chickens and a few rabbits. i talk to anyone who will listen to me about how great, fun, rewarding it is to have chickens. i tell people how i accidentally had a monsterous tomato crop last year & hope to repeat this year.
people need to learn these things. so many on this site have vast amounts of knowledge. it is a precious thing in today's world.

well, that's my soapbox for the day. whew! didn't know that was percolating in me. i'm just glad people like y'all are out there in the internet world to teach people like me how to do things before it is lost forever. looking back on it, when i took my master gardener class, i am shocked how little had to do with raising food.

 

[hoodat]

GMO may seem cheaper at the time you buy groceries but all independent tests (Monsantos' tests are rigged) seem to indicate that GMOs are linked to many diseases.
I've heard it said about food prices,"Give it to the small farmer now or give it to the doctors in a few years."

 

[seedcorn]

Hoodat, I'm unaware of one independent trial (done by an uninterested party) that shows ANY health issues. Please paste a link. None by organic or organic enthusiasts. I'm also aware of poultry, swine and cattle breeders/feeders that have seen NO health issues in over 20 years of feeding this deadly poison. Cell phones, computers, and TV's carry much more health risks. Assume you don't associate with any of these.

We in America are so insulated from hunger, we sometimes act as elitests. I support anyone that wants to grow, eat organic or even as vegans. Just don't try to make me live that way.

University tests are not rigged. What they are is designed to prove one thing (or disprove one thing), nothing more nothing less. Most tests are paid for by some company that has the right to suppress the results.

JB, the farmer went into this with eyes wide open. Nothing was hidden. A few farmers thought it was their God given right to pirate genetics. Until Pioneer won stopping pirating, it was a plant breeders worst nightmare. Imagine your life's work stolen the second year it was released. A successful career for a plant breeder is developing one marketable line.

Build a better mouse trap so I can steal it.

 

[vfem]

The real problem is the price. Nobody wants to pay more for food. Be it a tomato, or ground beef, eggs, or apples, or Dole Mixed Salad Greens. Nobody wants to pay more for milk, or cereal, or anything else for that matter.

That's where Monsanto has their claws into society is price. To market a uniform product that is cheaper, higher yield, can be grown in places where its not traditionally found, decreases cost. The trade is that your a slave to their product be it the farmer who has to keep buying their seeds to still turn a profit, or the average consumer who can't afford a dollar hike in the price of milk.

I just was at the store yesterday. Milk was 2.37 a gallon. Organic milk? 6.57 a gallon. Don't know too many people who either can or are willing to spend that much in milk. Some folks can and do either by making it a priority or having enough $ in the bank that those prices don't bother them. Either way its not for the average joe to afford.

What about school lunches? In many schools, the lunch program is the only meal some kids get to eat ALL DAY. 1 in 6 Americans are struggling with hunger. And you want to raise the price of food? How many people are cutting back just to try to make ends meet? And thats just in America. The land of the free, home of the brave, by many to be considered the greatest country in the world.

Raise your hands if you want to raise taxes to increase the budget to pay for non GMO products to feed the children? Sure the school could grow their own, but someone has to take the initiave and make it happen. Anybody want to raise taxes to increaes the budget to pay for non GMO products to feed prisoners? Once again they could grow their own but then you have the ACLU being involved because it could be considered cruel and unusual punishment, plus paying for increased patrols and officers to keep an eye on prisoners who now have shovels, spades etc in their hands.

What about the people on assistance? We going to raise taxes so we can increase the amount of money available for people so they can afford to eat non-GMO cheese? Peanut butter that does not have GMO ingredients?

And those are just issues off the top of my head.

I don't like Monsanto at all, and I have no interest in eating genetically altered food. HOWEVER we're in the minority here. Many people trust the FDA & trust the Govt. (which is a different argument for a different place & time) so they buy the products they like at the lowest prices they can. Until more people are willing to grow a garden, and learn to can, and other methods of preservation this is going to continue to be an issue and Monsanto is going to be profiting off of it. Its not just as simple as "teach a man to plant a tomato and he'll eat for a lifetime" kind of scenario. There are bigger issues at hand here and while I don't think Monsanto is the answer we do need to figure something out.

It is all about cheap, cheap sells? Funny how profitable being inexpensive, and productive is?! No wonder China is going to take over the world and all industry someday (sooner then we think).

At the same time, Europe pays good money for their food. They pay a much higher percent of their income on food, and have less medical expenses then Americans. Not to mention the average age of an American farmer is 58 while in Europe its 48.

I think they know something we don't....

 

[seedcorn]

Europe controls all input costs from fertilizer to seed to land rent-socialism. Is that what we are suggesting?

China (& other slave labor countries) get tarrifed so as not to bankrupt our companies. Europe does that with our Ag products.

 

[baymule]

jared 77 i agree w/most of what you say. my problem is i can't always be reasonable about some things. i don't know if the farmer's saw the train coming at them full speed or not. to think that they are no longer allowed to save their seed in order to plant for next year sounds like a recipe for famine to me. we, the gardeners/plant people of the world have to talk about this to anyone willing to listen. we aren't right about everything - but we have given the situation some thought which is more than many people do when it comes to pondering the source of our food.

we have to push back against this tide sweeping us into dependency on mega corporations. i am nearing 60 and don't know how to can. i have never killed an animal for food (except fish). i haven't until last year grown any of my own food. that is nothing less than criminal on my part. my mother canned everything. my parent's generation knew how to do so much that has almost been lost to us as a people. this forum is, in my opinion, going to be a life saver for people in the times ahead.

God willing, for the first time in my life, i'm going to can this year. i am going to gut up and process a few chickens and a few rabbits. i talk to anyone who will listen to me about how great, fun, rewarding it is to have chickens. i tell people how i accidentally had a monsterous tomato crop last year & hope to repeat this year.
people need to learn these things. so many on this site have vast amounts of knowledge. it is a precious thing in today's world.

well, that's my soapbox for the day. whew! didn't know that was percolating in me. i'm just glad people like y'all are out there in the internet world to teach people like me how to do things before it is lost forever. looking back on it, when i took my master gardener class, i am shocked how little had to do with raising food.

bj, you have landed in the right place! We will hold your hand and walk and talk you through the process of canning, butchering and becoming more food independant. Years ago, I raised rabbits, quail, chickens and pheasants. I butchered all of them and I have shot and processed deer. Have never taken a deer to a processor, can't imagine PAYING someone to do that......I disgress..... I have 8 little roosters that will go to freezer camp soon. I'll make a thread with pics for you.

 

[Jared77]

Vfem for the average American yes cheap sells. I shop the farmers markets, I hunt, fish, process my own meat and can everything I can get my hands on. But as I've said we're in the minority.

I still have to buy the cheaper milk because I can't afford 6+ dollars a gallon and its illegal to have a milk cow share for raw milk in Michigan. There is no regulation on goat milk though. I've already looked into it.

At the same time, Europe pays good money for their food. They pay a much higher percent of their income on food, and have less medical expenses then Americans.

They also pay higher taxes for Govt regulated health insurance so their medical insurance is cheaper since its spread out over the whole population of the country. They don't have a few people making up the difference for those who are not insured but legally have to be treated. Or to pay for the gaps that are created by Medicare and Medicaid. The Govt determines how much both programs will pay for treatments. Lets say you John Q Public has to go to the ER for something. The bill for his treatment is $1,000. He has either Medicare or Medicaid and they determine for his problem that they will pay $700. There's still a $300 unpaid. If John Q Public has say Medicaid that's where his bill ends. Legally the hospital cannot go after him for that remaining $300. Its written off as a loss by the hospital. So to make up for that cost the hospital bills at a very high rate knowing they will only get whatever the Govt insurance will pay however its in place to make up for the losses to try to collect from those who have private insurance to help make up for that $300 gap.

The Govt pay pay outs are part of the reason insurance is so high.

Its just not that easy.

Besides the farmer who thought he'd exploited a loop hole was only trying to save GMO seed anyway. It wasn't like he was trying to fight for healthier food, say if he tried to sue to protect his non-GMO crops from being pollinated by GMO crops and creating a hybrid. No he wanted to keep GMO food and not have to pay the piper to get it. I don't think this farmer is any better than Monsanto. He was motivated purely by profit. I don't like Monsanto but that farmer to me isn't any better. He tried to exploit a loophole for profit. When big corporate America does it we want their heads on a stick. When a farmer does it for profits he's praised as a Champion. Both are crooks and need to be treated accordingly.