For those opposed to environmentalism:

[897tgigvib]

 

[Ridgerunner]

This is the type of thing Ill not respond in depth to for a while. Ill probably type up a response, wait and read it again, delete it and write another and go through this cycle a few times. I may or may not eventually post something.

But I do want to say, dont confuse environmentalism and environmentalists. They dont always go together.

Have a good night. Im going to bed.

 

[897tgigvib]

 

[digitS']

How might we enhance, Marshall?

How would we make greater, strengthen, increase rather than diminish?

How beautify?

Steve

 

[hoodat]

I remember my grandfather saying,"If you don't leave the land better than you found it you never were a farmer; just another strip miner".

 

[Smart Red]

* This quote, while uncertain, is usually attributed to Chief Seattle: "Will you teach your children what we have taught ours? That the earth is our mother? Whatever befalls the earth befalls all the sons of the earth. The earth does not belong to man; man belongs to the earth. Man did not weave the web of life; he is merely a strand in it. We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children."
----------
The problem comes in how we define environmentalism. Man's very existence effects the Earth. The greater number of people, the greater the effects of Man upon the Earth. A few hundred Native Americans living in one area may have had little effect. A few million Americans living in a city will, by necessity have a greater effect. Then there are the scientific advances. If Native Americans had the medical knowledge or the technology of today would they have disregarded it? The indigenous people were swift to change when horses were first brought to America. The "Five Civilized Tribes" were assimilating into the early American society - wearing European clothing, living in fine houses, sending their children to school, even owing slaves until the shameful edict from Washington that they lose their property and be moved further west.

Perhaps as gardeners, we are closer to the earth, have a greater appreciation for it. I choose to garden in an organic manner, to be a good steward of the property I call mine, because I feel it it the right thing to do. I don't feel I have the right to tell others how to care for their land, although, I often do try to persuade them through education and example.

Damage done to our Earth is easiest seen in retrospect. What has already been done. What harm has come to her flora and fauna as we know it by Man's actions. How travel has enabled invasive plants and animals to move about the world and destroy habitats centuries in the making. Just as Lot bargained with God for the souls of righteous men, would those intergalactic visitors deem all Mankind guilty? Or perhaps would those travelers have done much the same to their homeland in the name of progress?

It is a puzzle that needs much contemplation and consideration, but a puzzle that is not easily solved.

Feeling not-so-Smart-Red musing in return.

[edited to add this ps: This is one of my favorite quotes. It closely mirrors my own feelings regarding the web of life.]

 

[bobm]

I believe in environmentalism, and I am my own kind of environmentalist.

Please enlighten us of your own kind of environmentalism !

 

[seedcorn]

I'm all for environmentalism instead of pollution. Problem is we have a huge difference in what is environmental. Pollution comes from ALL people, not just the evil companies (which are made of people). The nitrogen from manure is just as deadly as nitrogen from fertilizer.

What I find interesting is, let company bring in foreign plant and they are evil. Let an individual (see thread on this forum) do it, and it's big brother government controlling us...... My animals (dog, cat, horse, cow, etc) crap in ditch, it's natural. Let manure get on road from hauling manure, it's call the government officials, those evil CFO's! Can't have it both ways.

 

[897tgigvib]

 

[Smart Red]

What SeedCorn says about humans being so many, and what we automatically do is true. Every time a person pees we change what is on the Earth.

We change its form as in nature, nothing is created or lost on the Earth. This pee is a part of nature, for sure. But in a natural world, that pee is spread over a grazing or hunting area where it is useful to plants. Man-made habitats, such as cities, change the usefullness of that urea. So to do farms - where herds of animals are contained rather than being free to roam over a 'natural' range or where monoculture entices pests and disease - upset the Nature's plan. Do we do away with cities? Do away with farms?

Start with the primal urge to procreate and smartness says do something better.

Something better? What? So everyone stops reproducing. In not so many years Man is extinct and nature is free from interference. It that a good plan? Of course not! So the question is who decides the human breeding program? And is that living, connecting with nature?

Same thing with the primal urge to be SELFISH. Smartness says do something better. . . .SOME FOLKS ARE BETTER AT BEING SELFISH THAN OTHERS. There's a Hummer. That unit cost a hundred thousand clams! It's just some selfish ceo or rich business owner griping about how much they pay their lazy good for nothing employees while wondering where next to spend money to remove the cash from their taxable base...

If being selfish is a primal urge, and I doubt it is, how could someone do better? Yes, there are selfish folks, both rich and poor. Do I know how hard that CEO worked and sacrificed to be able to buy that Hummer? Is it my place to tell her how to spend her money? She didn't make the vehicle. It was available for purchase right beside the Prius. Personally, I wouldn't want a Hummer. Instead I choose to skip vacations, new cars, and new clothes, skip smoking, drinking, and partying, skip gym fees, hair and nail dos to buy, rehab, and rent houses. For many years that meant peanut butter sandwiches while working after school, weekends, and all summer. I remember many nights spent cleaning, painting, getting ready for the next tenant moving in instead of sleeping knowing I needed to be in school the next day. Was I selfish working so hard? Now the places are renovated and paid for. The money could be rolling in.

I said, "Could be rolling in." As it is from my eight units, I have a tenant who owes over $7000 in back rent, 2 tenants that owe well over $1000 each. Yup! I'm one of those greedy landlords. Does that make me selfish as well? Having simple needs, I consider myself 'comfortable', but far from well off and certainly not rich. If I chose to get a Hummer in my old age would that really make me selfish?

That is what environmentalism addresses. The basic causes of how we affect our planet.

One famous environmentalist was John Denver. I always found it amusing that he built his huge house in the Colorado mountains and buried his 500-gallon containers of fuel before he became most vocal about protecting the environment and not letting anyone else do what he did. Now we have a dear member chastise himself for enjoying a few moments on his computer. Is he more selfish or anti-Earth than you or I. Of course not! We may wish to keep a small footprint upon the Earth, but still choose to enjoy medical, technical, cultural advances that are available today. Self-interest? Yes. Selfish? Perhaps but perhaps not.

Like you, I love this Earth. I love being in Nature (as it exists today) and I enjoy gardening in as naturalistic a way as I know. I have shed tears at some of her scars, gotten angry at some of her mistreatment.

It's just some selfish ceo or rich business owner griping about how much they pay their lazy good for nothing employees while wondering where next to spend money to remove the cash from their taxable base... Now, next thing you know, someone else wants a Hummer just like that one. A so called smart person will then strive hard and cold-blooded to become a rich @$#^#$^$#%@ who can also buy one.

{What's wrong?} For one, folks need to render hidden extreme angers obsolete. It does not take much to know that you do have powerful angers inside, often directed at those who love this planet.

. . . And sometimes directed at those who don't love it in equal measure. To me, the above quote as more than a tinge of not-so-hidden, extreme anger against those who seem to fit in the ranks of the 1%-ers (As our president is so prone to call himself. . oops, I mean lump THEM.)

I know. Practically anything I type will receive powerful anti-statements, and maybe even veiled things to cause me to fear. I wound up getting old somehow. One way or another I will wind up getting even older. Always seems to happen.

Dear Friend, I hope nothing here sounded powerfully "anti" or fearfully "veiled". Such is not my intention. I just wanted to share another perspective to your comments. I suspect your late night 'wondering' post was the result of a bad day or perhaps things going on around you that brought on a brief musing sadness at the futility of "all this". This we share - none of us will get out of "all this" alive. We will continue to get older - continue with our lives until we can't. What I wish for you, for myself, for each of us on TEG is two fold.
1. That we go out proud of our life and what we have made of it.
2. That we are remembered fondly by others for what we have made of our life.

Yup! If that, too, sounds rather selfish please forgive me. I fear it is just in my nature. Love you! Admire you! Appreciate you, Marshallsmyth, for all that you add to this great site. Now off MY soapbox and into the garden.