Genetically modified tomato seeds?

[me&thegals]

Yep--I hear what you're saying, Patandchickens. I'm just making the point of being clear on terms. Breeding certain plants or saving seeds from plants with certain traits is modifying the genetics. But, what most people think of today when they hear "genetically modified" is actually a transgenic process, something that happens in a lab. I think that silkiechicken was trying to clarify this in an earlier post and I was simply helping with the terminology.

Any posts on GMO that I have written clearly state how I feel about it, which is to learn as much as I can and at the same time avoid seeds with that technology absolutely and completely.

 

[silkiechicken]

Yep, just trying to make sure there was a division in the types of genetic engineering that exist. It's often so muddled in common speak that it can get frantic. I'll see if I can't get some time to sit with that book.

 

[jhm47]

Hi All: I'm new to this website, and wish to introduce myself:

1. You should all know that I've lived on a commercial farm most of my life. We don't grow vegetables for sale, but do grow corn, soybeans, wheat and cattle. I've raised sheep, hogs, chickens, and turkeys. The sheep were a 4-H project for my 4 children. Now that our kids are grown, I still keep some poultry for a hobby. Show them at several shows, and do OK.

2. I also worked for the world's largest seed company for 20 years. I witnessed the genetic modification "revolution", and have some pretty unique insights on it.

3. For about 10 years, I was a nationally certified crop advisor. I went about the area and advised many farmers about their cultural practices, weed identification, fertilize specifications, and herbicide/insecticide recommendations.

4. I have also been a paramedic in our tiny community for nearly 20 years, and have a son, daughter, and son-in-law who are medical doctors.

5. My wife works in a laboratory in our local ethanol plant, and she is also an EMT.

Enough about us. I just want everyone to know that the GMO technology has revolutionzed farming. The ability to use far less toxic pesticides has helped our environment immensely. Also, the use of the Roundup technology has enabled nearly every farmer to till his/her fields much less than they needed to do a decade ago. This cuts down on fuel usage, which in turn helps our environment.

I do, however have a problem with large chemical companies virtual complete control over the technology. Monsanto has a patent on the RR gene, and also the chemical. This gives them total control over who gets the genetics, and they charge other seed companies a royalty that ultimately gets passed on to the farmers.

 

[silkiechicken]

Welcome!

That is GREAT to hear the other side!!!

 

[holliewould]

I have not heard of GMO seeds being sold for the home gardening market, only for agri-business production.

As for the whole Frankenfoods issue, a few weeks ago I heard the CEO of Monsanto interviewed on NPR, and he made a solid case for GMO from his perspective. Basically, he said that water and soil are in finite supply, and he didnt see anything wrong, for example, with developing strain of cotton that grew faster, required less pesticides and water than current strains.

That sounds reasonable I suppose for a plant like cotton, but when it comes to food Im reminded of the incident a few years ago when a GMO corn strain not intended for human consumption cross pollinated with a food variety. Wasn't there a huge recall due to concerns about people with corn allergies?

I guess I just don't understand what GMO will get us that traditional plants genetics methods won't.

~Phyllis

The "Well Traveled Tomato" was given out for free. You have to do logs and report back etc. A blogger had tried them with great success. So this is why I was curious. To see if anyone else has gotten their hands on them or anything like that etc. I see most everyone thinks it's a big No No though, which I completely understand. Just like her, I'm just at the point of giving up on growing my own maters.

 

[holliewould]

About the tomatoes, though, what diseases are the GMO tomatoes purported to avoid? I'd be interested in the taste of the tomatoes.

Here is where I found out about the seeds. This backyard gardner is in the same zone as myself. She has 3 parts to the "well traveled tomato" seeds. Take a peek. http://www.daniellecopeland.com/2008/02/well-travelled-tomato-part-1.html?showComment=1202050020000

 

[me&thegals]

jhm47--welcome! I would LOVE to hear more about things from your perspective. I know there are always 2 sides to the story. I have a friend who works for Monsanto and a CSA customer who does also, both doing genetic modification on cotton. I don't trust my ability to have a calm conversation about this so I have not talked to either of them...

Three of the complaints I have heard about GMO (plus the ones I already mentioned above):

1. Weeds develop a tolerance to the Roundup.

2. Bugs develop a tolerance to the corn or other plants that have the insecticide "programmed" into them. Can you address these?

3. The genetic material is unstable, traveling via pollinators and wind.

(sorry if I'm hijacking this thread! should I start another one, holliewould?)

 

[jhm47]

MEAT Gals: Yes, it's possible that some weeds will develop resistance to the roundup herbicide, however there have been very few that have at this time. There are several ways to guard against resistance, the best are tillage and rotating herbicides.

There are many "modes of action" to kill weeds. Some MOA's cause the weeds to lose their ability to move nutrients from the roots to the leaves, some destroy essential enzymes in the plants (Roundup does this), and some disrupt the plant's growth pattern. There are other ways also, but I won't go into them at this time.

As to the insects getting resistance to the Bt gene, there are safeguards for this too. Each farmer who plants Bt corn must also plant 20% of his field to non Bt corn. The theory here is that any insects that are resistant to the Bt will mate with some that are not resistant, and the offspring will eventually become susceptible after several generations. By the way, the Bt gene is found in bacteria that live in soil. These bacteria have been used for many years as a "natural" insecticide, and if you've eaten vegetables, you have eaten Bt bacteria. Bacillus Thuringiensis is the bacteria, and they have been cleared for use in organic food production. The mode of action that Bt kills is that it plugs up the intestine of the larvae of moths and butterflies (scientific name is Lepidoptera). It has little effect on the adult butterflies and moths.

Yes, it is possible/likely that these genes will cross-pollinate with non GMO crops. However, just as cows and hogs don't crossbreed, corn pollen will not "jump" to wheat plants or soybean plants, or any other plants, so the fears of widespread contamination of all crops are not valid.

I would ask you this question: Would you rather eat corn that is resistant to insects via Bt (which you have eaten in vegetables and fruits), or eat corn that has been sprayed with a very toxic chemical? In my many years of farming, I have seen chemicals that were extremely toxic, and I feel that these chemicals caused many of my neighbors to die of cancer and other diseases. So far, I've been lucky.

I have a friend who lost his 17 year old brother. The brother brought out some sandwiches to my friend when he was planting corn. My friend was putting down some granular insecticide in the furrow with the corn. Apparently, a granule of this insecticide somehow got into his brother's sandwich, when he dropped it on the ground, and the younger brother died within 15 minutes. Tragic!

I know that many of you might feel that I'm a planted stooge for a chemical company, but I no longer work for any of them, and am now self employed in another line of work. I do feel that these GMO's need to be carefully regulated (much more closely than the banking industry has been), and if done correctly it can enable farmers to continue to increase our yields to feed an ever growing world population.

 

[me&thegals]

Yes, it is possible/likely that these genes will cross-pollinate with non GMO crops. However, just as cows and hogs don't crossbreed, corn pollen will not "jump" to wheat plants or soybean plants, or any other plants, so the fears of widespread contamination of all crops are not valid.

Right, but what about "contamination" of other corn crops? Even more than that, I would be concerned about a growing monopoly on seed that would make other older varieties unavailable and eventually push them out completely.

I would ask you this question: Would you rather eat corn that is resistant to insects via Bt (which you have eaten in vegetables and fruits), or eat corn that has been sprayed with a very toxic chemical?

Or how about neither! I have never in my life used chemicals on my gardens and have more food than I know what to do with. Yep--I certainly lose some to bugs. But, that seems a natural risk to me. I think this whole factory farming system we have now exposes the farmer to unnatural risks. Monocropping creates the vulnerability of an entire crop being wiped out by one insect species. And chemicals allow the farmer to plant tremendous tracts of land without too much work on his/her part for weed removal... But, what do those chemicals (Roundup or other) do to the soil, insect species, groundwater, farmer?

I have great skepticism that Monsanto will be able to "feed the world" based on its technology. Basically, its technology just pads its pocketbook. Third world countries, as far as I know, don't want and can't afford all the GMO.

I have a friend who lost his 17 year old brother. The brother brought out some sandwiches to my friend when he was planting corn. My friend was putting down some granular insecticide in the furrow with the corn. Apparently, a granule of this insecticide somehow got into his brother's sandwich, when he dropped it on the ground, and the younger brother died within 15 minutes. Tragic!

I'm very sorry. This is exactly why I have a healthy fear of a lot of chemicals, drugs, insecticides and others that are supposed to be safe for us... I live in the country in farmland, and it is hard to find one house on a 4-mile stretch that does not have at least one cancer victim in it.

I do feel that these GMO's need to be carefully regulated (much more closely than the banking industry has been), and if done correctly it can enable farmers to continue to increase our yields to feed an ever growing world population.

I can completely agree with you on this. I feel that food, seed supply, and natural products that have pollinators, etc., need special regulation. GMO lack of labeling and strict regulation make me nervous.

I really hope none of this has come across as abrasive. I appreciate your taking the time to talk about this further and look forward to hearing more of what you have to say

 

[jhm47]

First of all, I do not consider you to be "abrasive" at all. I really enjoy intelligent discourse, and hope we can continue this.

Yes, GMO corn pollen can travel for a short way and fertilize other corn plants, if the wind and humidity are just right. However, the seed company that I once worked for required a 1/4 mile isolation zone for it's extremely valuable seed plots. As incredibly fussy as these seed producers are, I'm sure that a much shorter distance would be quite safe. However, no farmer that I know saves his own seed corn. They all buy it from the huge seed companies for exhorbitant prices. But that's another topic.

As you probably know, most of the kernels on an ear of corn are pollinated by the tassel atop it's own plant. The seed companies use brown paper bags over the silking ear and tassel during pollination to produce the inbred varieties that eventually are crossed with another inbred to produce hybrid corn. When there is enough pollen in the bag on the tassel, the workers remove it and place it on he silking ear. They then shake the bag vigorously, and the kernels are pollinated. Not rocket science!

As to Roundup, it is a very safe chemical, compared to many others. It contains a chemical named Glyphosate, which kills plants by inhibiting enzymatic action which plants need to live. Roundup must be applied only on the green tissue of a plant in order to kill. You can spray it on a tree trunk, and it will not affect the tree at all. You can spray it on the roots of a plant, and it won't affect it. It must be sprayed on green tissue (leaves or stems) in order to affect a plant.

Roundup has a very short half life. It has no soil activity, and breaks down into harmless chemicals (I don't remember just what they are right now) almost instantly in soil, and is virtually non toxic to anything but plants.

Just in case you're wondering, I worked for a competitor of Monsanto, and have no warm and fuzzy feelings for the company. In my opinion, Monsanto was a greedy, opportunistic company that cares only about it's bottom line. However, they did produce a very good, safe chemical in Roundup. BTW---did you know that the Roundup ready gene came from a tomato plant? The Monsanto scientists were able to identify the gene, and after much work, they were able to splice it into corn and soybean plants.