Grading Papers

[Smart Red]

Dickie, you can teach a student to read a ruler and they can show 'mastery' of that skill over and over during the school year, but unless they find a need to practice the skill in their non-school life they will lose it.

Certainly with modern technology, learning how to learn and how to find wanted information has taken over rote memory in schools. Personally, I think having a base of rote learning isn't a bad thing, but who today wants to rely on memory and a possible mistake when their phone has the right answer every time?

God help students today when the power goes off! I fear the world will come to a standstill.

 

[Nyboy]

I went to public school till 12 grade, Had some amazing teachers!!

 

[Carol Dee]

I went to public school till 12 grade, Had some amazing teachers!!

Yes, I also attended public schools and had amazing teachers. Mrs. Green and Mr. Erps come to mind as two favorites. I would consider the students that had @Smart Red as LUCKY ones too.

 

[seedcorn]

I've heard these rants about Public education being worthless till I'm sick. Indiana is a huge "home school" state. The problem isn't the teachers, it's the PARENTS. They don't value education-teach me to write my name, do simple math, I'm good. Tell you what, when you go to doctor, dentist, lawyer, etc, find one who is self taught, home schooled.

Although do agree that school boards (parents again) have went beyond over board with non-educational expenses.

@digitS', I apologize for going on rant and de-railing your thread. I'm done on that subject here on this thread-unless you want it de-railed.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I'll get on my soapbox. It is a pet peeve. People tend to talk of all public schools as being the same, all private, parochial, or charter schools as being the same for their type. That's not been my experience. I had a kid in a private school for three years, but when he tested "Gifted" we moved him to a public school for the special programs for "Gifted and Talented" kids. This was in Metairie Louisiana, outside of New Orleans The private schools did not have those enrichment programs, one nearby public elementary school did. When it was time for the younger boys to start school we moved to get in that school district. The Middle and High Schools also had Gifted/Talented programs. So my kids went to public schools. All three were in the Gifted/Talented program. Some of their classes were relatively small with the other Gifted/Talented kids but a few were with the general school population. We got to know all the parents of the other GT kids because all those parents were active in the school, believed in education, and supported their kids. That's one reason I think the parent is the most important predictor of a kids success in school.

I found that the top students of the public school system could compete academically with the best students of the private and parochial schools and sometimes beat them. Athletically the private and parochial schools would win, they could recruit the best athletes from the playgrounds and offer scholarships, public schools could not do that. My boys were all different so they were not all on the same teams, but some were on chess teams, speech teams, and quiz bowl teams. When the schools competed in regional academic contests that public high school had students and teams that placed well. One of my sons won the state Geo Bee twice and represented Louisiana in Washington for the national contest, with Alex Trebek asking the questions. That public high school had an exceptional teacher that coached the speech team. He regularly had kids that placed in national speech competitions. One year he had one kid win one category and another kid place second in a different category in a major new York City competition. Not bad for a relatively small public school in the New Orleans area. It was not a magnet school.

Some public schools in the New Orleans area were not much more than zoos. I was in a different parish, but the New Orleans system had a magnet school where the top students went. Admission was very competitive, the kids had to test really well to get in and there was a limited capacity. That was an excellent public school academically, the rest, pretty bad. There was a lot of corruption in that system too. Being elected to that school board was a license to make money for yourself, friends, and relatives. After Katrina the school system was reworked. Now there are more "charter" and state-run schools than schools in the regular public system. I've moved away but one son and his wife are teachers in that area, one in a parochial school in Orleans Parish so I keep up to a certain point. Some of those charter schools are doing pretty well, some are as bad as the public schools were. Some of that is the "charter", what are they trying to do. That does make a big difference. Skimming off the best students and not taking the problem kids is a major reason others are doing well. I have nothing against charter schools some are great, but try to do an apples to apples comparison instead of taking the best and comparing them to the public schools. I know, that takes work and doesn't make for good sound bites for some politicians.

In general, the public schools in the area (depends on the system) pay more than most of the private and parochial schools. The teaching conditions in the private schools are generally the best because they generally have students from parents that care about their kids education plus they get rid if the worst of the problem kids. The elite private schools pay pretty well, but some don't. Teaching conditions in the public schools are usually not great, though some public schools are better than others.

The public schools my boys went to had their share of failures. That was one of the big differences in the public and all the other schools. If the private or parochial schools had a kid that was a problem, they would kick them out. After they were kicked out of a couple, the public schools were their only option. So the public schools wound up with the kids whose parents didn't care about their education or the rejects from the private/parochial schools. Getting the problems kids kicked out of a public school was a long involved process. I'm not talking about just expelling them for a while, I'm talking about totally kicking them out. It's a serious step, it should not be easy, but I wish they could speed it up.

Another somewhat separate but related rant. America is known as the land of opportunity for everyone. This does not guarantee success, I don't believe you can have success unless you also have the opportunity to fail, but it means everyone has a level playing field. When we were settling the frontier, one of the signs that a community had a chance to make it was that they had a school.

One way elitist regimes have maintained control is to only educate certain people and keep the masses uneducated. In the middle ages, only royalty and clergy were educated. The rest were to be serfs and servants. Today in certain dictatorial governments controlling who gets educated is a way to hang onto power. It’s no surprise certain dictatorial systems go after the educated when they come into power and want the masses uneducated. The threat to their rule is going to come from the educated.

This is why I don’t want the public school system to be abandoned. Every kid deserves that opportunity. Most of them will not take advantage of that opportunity, but some will. Some kids have that spark inside them that they will succeed if given any chance. Even most of the ones that don’t will pick up something so most are better off. Some parents that really want their kids to get an education can’t afford to move to a good school district or to pay for them to go to a private school. I have nothing against vouchers if they are used to give these kids a chance and are not just a way to help defer the costs for those that have the money to send their kids to better schools anyway.

I have nothing against private, parochial, or charter schools. They have their places. I’d like to see certain kids in those military boot camp type of schools, it will help some of them. As hard as it is in some areas, I think abandoning the public schools and not trying to make an education possible for every American kid is un-American. It goes against our history and traditions. To me, it threatens our freedom.

 

[lcertuche]

Well I wrote a long rant about our school but decided to delete it and just say I have started homeschooling my sons. Less said the better, lol.

 

[Ridgerunner]

As far as I'm concerned, rant away. I feel that every kid deserves a chance at a decent public education, but I'm aware not every kid does.

If I'd been forced to live in that corrupt Orleans Parish school system and could not afford to move to a better school district or send the kids to private schools where the tuition was more expensive than the cost (including books, room, and board) to go to the state universities, my wife would have probably home schooled our kids. That Orleans Parish school system was corrupt, a lot more of the school board and other officials needed to go to jail than actually did.

Many teachers were good people that tried, but they were more like zookeepers than teachers. Some had burned out, just trying to get to retirement. Some were still trying. Those inner-city schools can be really tough. Anybody, black or white, that could afford it and cared didn't send their kids to those schools. I worked with people whose wives worked in that system and met a few of them. My wife and I volunteered to help one of the schools get the classrooms prepared for the school year. Structurally that building was falling apart. I remember how pleased one of those teachers was that she was able to scrounge up a pencil sharpener that she wanted me to hang in her classroom. My company, one of those horrible oil companies, adopted that school and provided some financial help. Some company employees went over weekly on company time to mentor some of the kids. Some of the stories they told were hard to believe.

When my son was competing in the finals of the state Geo Bee, more of his competition than you would have expected were home schooled. Some that won their states and made it to Washington for the finals were home schooled. Home schooling is hard, but if it is done right it can be very effective.

I don't know your circumstances but to me one of the disadvanteges of home schooling can be social, many kids don't associate that much with other kids and other people. Here in Washington County, the public libraries have programs for kids that often have a lot of home schooled kids participate. It's enrichment plus social. Your library should be a great resource, not just for books. To me, one of the advantages of my kids going to a public school was that they rode the bus with and had classes with all kinds of people, not just people like them. It wasn't always easy but I think it made them more well-rounded people, better able to handle themselves in all kinds of situations.

Good luck with the home schooling.

 

[journey11]

What--are you crazy? Socialization is the best part about homeschooling!! Certainly you don't really believe that children who are confined the majority of their day to the herd mentality of their peer age group come into adulthood properly socialized? Last time I checked, a public school building is not a microcosm of the diversity of people and experiences there are to be found in the real world. I've told you before and I'll repeat it again, we don't put them in a box and sit on it. Between sports, church, 4-H, the playground, interaction with people of all ages, cousins, all the kiddos in the neighborhood, etc., they get plenty of socialization with as many diverse people groups and personality types as there possibly are to be found in our community. Oh yes, there are bullies everywhere you go. (Even on garden forums.)

Hey, I've got you all beat. I've attended and excelled academically in public school, private parochial school, homeschool and a large state university. More so than even parental involvement, I've found personal drive to be the greatest predictor of achievement. (For a short list of successful, driven homeschoolers, click here @seedcorn . Not hard at all to find, if you are willing to look.)

Don't knock what you don't understand. You raise your kids and I'll raise mine. They are members of the "village", but are not property of the village. God alone stands to judge me for how I raise my kids. He trusted them to me and He also gave me the right as their parent to direct their care, upbringing and education as I determine best for them and our family as individuals. So far, our gooberment has yet to succeed in taking that away, so I'll avail myself of that privilege as I have it. Don't go lumping all homeschoolers together anymore than you enjoy having all of your public schools lumped together. Every family is different; every school and district is different. Families are homeschooling for a wide variety of reasons, certainly not all are Christians and certainly not all are critical of the public schools. In my circle of friends, I know two public school teachers who were also homeschoolers.

Why did this ridiculous thread even veer off on homeschooling? Doesn't anybody have any veggies we can talk about or have we run off the only veggie-pic-posting member we had? We homeschoolers just want to be left alone to study in peace! Keep your gov't money. We don't want it or the gov't control that comes with it. And as far as public school problems go, some things are not easily fixed, no matter how much money you throw at it.

 

[thistlebloom]

A million and one likes for that Journey. Thank you for your concise defense of a stereotyped and poorly understood method of education.
I stand and applaud you my friend.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Journey, I totally agree. No stereotyping public schools, private schools, parochial schools, charter schools, or homeschooling. There are good ones in all to them, there are bad ones in all of them. Don't lump all of one type together.

Where my comment on socialization came from was that my wife volunteers at a children's library that has a lot of enrichment programs for kids. Many home schooled kids come to those. Some of those kids don't have problems with socialization, but some do. Not all parents that home school take advantage of playgrounds, church, 4-H, school teams (here kids can compete on school teams if they are in district) or any other methods for their kids to interact with other people. I was trying to encourage one way to help overcome that. I consider a public library a great resource. As you say, there are others.