Greetings Gardeners!

[Masoud]

I am against electrical fencing on the basis that it is more of a risk from foolish persons attempting to wander on my property and it is not worth the risk of a lawsuit. Besides, if they were confirmed to be a threat, they would be shot to death on sight, with no questions being asked in the interest of my own self defense. I do not play around when it comes to security.

The main reason I am against it is because I am against animal cruelty and although the fences might not injure them permanently, I know I would not want to be shocked by a fence. I find a good rule is to not do anything to an animal that you would not want done to you. It's a personal choice. Not knocking anyone who uses electric fences.

Classic fencing is also more historically correct, which is a goal for my property.

I can give them hay, but I am concerned about providing them a diet. Is there a goat feed you can buy at the store that is organic and GMO free? I would prefer to grow my own, but my primary concern would be keeping them away from my vines and berries.

Bluebonnet,
I very much like your personal choice and good rule "to not do ANYTHING (I am emphasizing) to an animal that you would not want done to you."
But on Feb 22 you also wrote:
"rabbits that eat more naturally are healthier, happier, have better coats and make for better eating."
Bluebonnet, don't you think that killing rabbits to be made for better eating (I assume by humans) is major cruelty to rabbits?

 

[Bluebonnet]

Bluebonnet,
I very much like your personal choice and good rule "to not do ANYTHING (I am emphasizing) to an animal that you would not want done to you."
But on Feb 22 you also wrote:
"rabbits that eat more naturally are healthier, happier, have better coats and make for better eating."
Bluebonnet, don't you think that killing rabbits to be made for better eating (I assume by humans) is major crudity to rabbits?

I do, which is why I only kill when I have to. I actually do not prefer rabbits and feed everything but the crown to my miniature dachshund. No part goes to waste, but here is the catch.

The rabbit breeds I deal with are endangered. I need to breed them to improve their lines and increase their numbers in order to save them from extinction.

The other option is to sell the rabbits, to places where they could be bred and they and their offspring perpetually killed for meat, locked in conditions far less friendly than my set up and much worse, others could sell the offspring to animal testing organizations or some parents buying them for Easter pets and then neglecting them or dumping them. In short, tortured over an unknown period of time before they are killed anyway.

I do everything I can to find good homes for the offspring I do not keep first.

I need to breed them to improve their numbers, but numbers do not equate to quality and health and I care about the health and happiness of my rabbits. I cull because I have to in order to improve the health of the rabbits along with their numbers, not because I enjoy it. The fur and meat is only a byproduct of this. I'm more of a vegetarian by nature than by force, so there is no incentive in killing rabbits for me. However, I still do eat other meats, just not on a regular basis.

My intention is to keep the numbers small until I can obtain the gold pedigree rabbits that are more desirable and then breed them and keep their offspring, to keep culling to an absolute minimum.

I do not like the idea of selling rabbits to just anyone. I'm not doing this for a profit, I'm doing it because it is a better alternative than the breeds going extinct.

Once I reach that point, which I will within five years, I intend to keep all of the rabbits and their offspring for their manure so I can ensure that they will have better lives here on my farm, where they can live out the rest of their days, happy and safe.

If you have a better plan, I am open to hearing it.

I should also note that I have only had to process two rabbits, of which were common white rabbits, because one I had the pet since I was little and it died of cancer and I processed him because I knew that it would be an important learning experience and because I wanted to keep the pelt for scrapbooking, because I loved that rabbit. The second because the rabbit was given to me by a neighbor and an unknown critter got to it and it was bleeding to death, slowly and because there was nothing that could be done, because I took it to the vet and it was put out of it's misery.

I have processed additional rabbits that belonged to another neighbor of mine who does raise rabbits for meat, because I feel that it is important to learn how to do it right, to minimize pain and suffering, and because it increases your awareness of just what goes into your food supply and the humbling experience of taking the life of any creature is not something to be done lightly. I helped this neighbor not only for the experience and to help my neighbor, but because I feel that it is important to be aware of what a serious undertaking it is when you take on the responsibility of caring for another living creature.

Trust me when I say that I get no pleasure from this aspect of saving these rabbits.

I have not yet had to cull one of my bunnies, which is why I have started off with so many cages. I intend to keep them for as long as possible. I do not want to cull if I do not have to. I am hoping to start small, with one litter each year, spending a year taking those rabbits to shows and gaining them grand champion status, with any luck. This way, if all pans out over the next three years, I will not have to cull a single rabbit.


I am particular about my bunnies and to a degree, my other animals, but I am still a carnivore and my other animals will be kept for eggs, milk and meat.

I do give them a far better life than they would find elsewhere.

As a matter of fact, the only other animals I kill currently are chickens, which goes back to the arrival of my family in America. The pigs have yet to arrive, but ham making is also a family pastime going back generations.

Here is a repost of a post I made over on BYC regarding the importance of chickens to my family.

"My ancestors are from Germany and they brought this recipe over with them to America, so it is likely older than that.
The Revolutionary War journal of one of my soldiers tells the story of how he and a group of his fellow soldiers were provided with a chicken from the locals in the area. They had been travelling for weeks in the cold snow and the men were demoralized due to the lack of blankets and general equipment that had been left behind because the horses carrying the supplies had died for causes that the journal does not mention.

Well the men got a hold of this chicken and there was some controversy as to just how to prepare it, as the men had no general cooking supplies. There was gambling going on in the camp and some of the men in the group had owed some amount of goods, ranging from candles to a pair of socks, to another individual. Since my ancestor was not a gambler and a rather religious person, he took this chicken and roasted it in the fashion of those who came before him and when the man who was owed the goods in question tasted this roasted chicken, he is noted as having cancelled the debt of my ancestor's friends, due to what is mentioned as my ancestor having 'rendered payment sufficient', thanks to this recipe.

I'm not entirely sure how he prepared it that day, given that he did not have equipment and the journal does not mention how he prepared it, but I'm thankful to have a story attached to this meal.

It might not be hendl as it is prepared today, but it sure is delicious!
I remember my Great Grandmother, well into her 70's and using a walking cane at the time, getting a Dutch oven and baking this delicious roasted chicken. I'll never forget how good it tasted! "


As you can see, tradition plays a role in my eating habits.

 

[journey11]

Bluebonnet, I had to Google hendl. Is this version similar to how you make yours? I think I am going to have to make that, and soon.

 

[Smart Red]

..... don't you think that killing rabbits to be made for better eating ...... is major cruelty to rabbits?

Masoud, as most any caring person with livestock will tell you, the goal is to give livestock -- rabbits, chicken, goats, etc. -- as comfortable and healthy a life as possible and to dispatch them (if needed) as quickly and humanely as possible.

As a consciencious breeder, what Bluebonnet said was not contradictory. I, for one, would appreciate all the help I could get for a more comfortable and healthy life. As to end of life? I hope death comes quickly and painlessly as well.

 

[Bluebonnet]

Bluebonnet, I had to Google hendl. Is this version similar to how you make yours? I think I am going to have to make that, and soon.

My version is not online. It is an OLD recipe. I mean really old. It is at least 400 years old and it was written down as an old family recipe even then.

The problem is that it is taught from the eldest women to the youngest women in the household with each generation. The measurements are not standardized and by request on the BYC forum, I am trying to write a recipe with directions for others to use, along with my schwarzwalder kirschtorte.

 

[journey11]

Ooh, be sure to link it here when you do, ok!

 

[Masoud]

I do, which is why I only kill when I have to. I actually do not prefer rabbits and feed everything but the crown to my miniature dachshund. No part goes to waste, but here is the catch.

The rabbit breeds I deal with are endangered. I need to breed them to improve their lines and increase their numbers in order to save them from extinction.

The other option is to sell the rabbits, to places where they could be bred and they and their offspring perpetually killed for meat, locked in conditions far less friendly than my set up and much worse, others could sell the offspring to animal testing organizations or some parents buying them for Easter pets and then neglecting them or dumping them. In short, tortured over an unknown period of time before they are killed anyway.

I do everything I can to find good homes for the offspring I do not keep first.

I need to breed them to improve their numbers, but numbers do not equate to quality and health and I care about the health and happiness of my rabbits. I cull because I have to in order to improve the health of the rabbits along with their numbers, not because I enjoy it. The fur and meat is only a byproduct of this. I'm more of a vegetarian by nature than by force, so there is no incentive in killing rabbits for me. However, I still do eat other meats, just not on a regular basis.

My intention is to keep the numbers small until I can obtain the gold pedigree rabbits that are more desirable and then breed them and keep their offspring, to keep culling to an absolute minimum.

I do not like the idea of selling rabbits to just anyone. I'm not doing this for a profit, I'm doing it because it is a better alternative than the breeds going extinct.

Once I reach that point, which I will within five years, I intend to keep all of the rabbits and their offspring for their manure so I can ensure that they will have better lives here on my farm, where they can live out the rest of their days, happy and safe.

If you have a better plan, I am open to hearing it.

I should also note that I have only had to process two rabbits, of which were common white rabbits, because one I had the pet since I was little and it died of cancer and I processed him because I knew that it would be an important learning experience and because I wanted to keep the pelt for scrapbooking, because I loved that rabbit. The second because the rabbit was given to me by a neighbor and an unknown critter got to it and it was bleeding to death, slowly and because there was nothing that could be done, because I took it to the vet and it was put out of it's misery.

I have processed additional rabbits that belonged to another neighbor of mine who does raise rabbits for meat, because I feel that it is important to learn how to do it right, to minimize pain and suffering, and because it increases your awareness of just what goes into your food supply and the humbling experience of taking the life of any creature is not something to be done lightly. I helped this neighbor not only for the experience and to help my neighbor, but because I feel that it is important to be aware of what a serious undertaking it is when you take on the responsibility of caring for another living creature.

Trust me when I say that I get no pleasure from this aspect of saving these rabbits.

I have not yet had to cull one of my bunnies, which is why I have started off with so many cages. I intend to keep them for as long as possible. I do not want to cull if I do not have to. I am hoping to start small, with one litter each year, spending a year taking those rabbits to shows and gaining them grand champion status, with any luck. This way, if all pans out over the next three years, I will not have to cull a single rabbit.


I am particular about my bunnies and to a degree, my other animals, but I am still a carnivore and my other animals will be kept for eggs, milk and meat.

I do give them a far better life than they would find elsewhere.

As a matter of fact, the only other animals I kill currently are chickens, which goes back to the arrival of my family in America. The pigs have yet to arrive, but ham making is also a family pastime going back generations.

Here is a repost of a post I made over on BYC regarding the importance of chickens to my family.

"My ancestors are from Germany and they brought this recipe over with them to America, so it is likely older than that.
The Revolutionary War journal of one of my soldiers tells the story of how he and a group of his fellow soldiers were provided with a chicken from the locals in the area. They had been travelling for weeks in the cold snow and the men were demoralized due to the lack of blankets and general equipment that had been left behind because the horses carrying the supplies had died for causes that the journal does not mention.

Well the men got a hold of this chicken and there was some controversy as to just how to prepare it, as the men had no general cooking supplies. There was gambling going on in the camp and some of the men in the group had owed some amount of goods, ranging from candles to a pair of socks, to another individual. Since my ancestor was not a gambler and a rather religious person, he took this chicken and roasted it in the fashion of those who came before him and when the man who was owed the goods in question tasted this roasted chicken, he is noted as having cancelled the debt of my ancestor's friends, due to what is mentioned as my ancestor having 'rendered payment sufficient', thanks to this recipe.

I'm not entirely sure how he prepared it that day, given that he did not have equipment and the journal does not mention how he prepared it, but I'm thankful to have a story attached to this meal.

It might not be hendl as it is prepared today, but it sure is delicious!
I remember my Great Grandmother, well into her 70's and using a walking cane at the time, getting a Dutch oven and baking this delicious roasted chicken. I'll never forget how good it tasted! "


As you can see, tradition plays a role in my eating habits.

Bluebonnet & Smart Red,
Thank you both for telling me what you think.

 

[cityfarmer]

Welcome!