Ignoring Your Calendar

[digitS']

Shouldn't we just be able to point to a first leaf or flower bloom and say, "Yes, there is our indication that frosts are past" ?

Phenology - the timing of first leaf and first bloom of lilac bushes has been a longterm study in the US. Still, I'm yet to see someone lay out the dates relative to the last Spring frost.

I'm about convinced that the lilac "knows" better to bloom before the frosts are well past but the leaves have been out for about 10 days now. It seem safe to say that the last frost usually falls between those 2 lilac events.

Plants respond to the changes in the Spring. How do your plants show you that the last frost is past?

lilacs or peaches are in full bloom
daylilies start to bloom
oak or elm leaves are the size of a squirrel's ear

It is a "solar thing" but leave that calendar alone for the moment, please. Knowing a calendar date for a Florida gardener is no help to a gardener in British Columbia (or nearby ).

Steve
Climate is what we expect; weather is what we get.

 

[digitS']

As a little light at the end of the tunnel for my immediate neighbors in this warmth-challenged year:

The FIRST lilac bloom recorded by the Weather Service in Spokane during the 6 years it participated:

May 19
May 8
May 6
May 20
May 9
May 11

digitS'

 

[Collector]

I dont go by the weather as much as local lore. My family in this area always went by mica peak plus the calender. plant when the snow is off of Mica peak or the 2 weekend of may which ever comes first.
We are hoping to plant some things in the garden this afternoon if the rain holds off and the soil drys a little!

ETA, Oh I see you were not talking about the weather, rather the calender! Hey it takes me a minute to catch on LOL.

 

[jojo54]

We are new to the area so also try to go by the locals rather than the weather. This is our third spring here and we are finding it difficult to decide when to plant.

The people we bought the house from pointed to one of the mountains and said when the snow is off that mountain you can plant. The first spring we planted by that rule and our potatoes were in the ground April 8 and we had a very successful garden that year.

Last year it was cooler and rained longer in the spring so we planted a bit later and had mixed success. The lady at the feed store told us last year not until the long weekend in May. I can't see that she is correct because that was when we planted in Saskatchewan and we have REAL winters there.

This year the weather has been cooler than last year or so it seems to me. The snow is off THAT mountain but others have much more than usual. Locals say it is cooler than normal so I have been slower to plant. Although one of my egg customers siad he just put in his corn so I bit the bullet and did the same. The ground is warm as I can plant in my bare feet and it is warm but the air is cold which I think is because the wind is blowing over the snowy mountains and bringing us the chilled air.

Who knows! Maybe its time to get out the old crytsal ball as the answers you get from various people differ greatly.

 

[patandchickens]

I'm about convinced that the lilac "knows" better to bloom before the frosts are well past but the leaves have been out for about 10 days now. It seem safe to say that the last frost usually falls between those 2 lilac events.

You must have smarter lilacs than me Here, the blooms get zapped by frost maybe every 4-5 years as far as I can gather (from combination of personal experience and talking with others who've lived here longer). Very irksome.

Plants respond to the changes in the Spring. How do your plants show you that the last frost is past?

IMO they don't, not really. What phenological events tell you is what the weather has BEEN, not what it will be. Obviously thru commonsense interpretation of events (both this year and most years') you can make a sensible guess about whether there may be a late frost within a few weeks, but it will not always be right, at least not up here.

JME,

Pat

 

[lesa]

Nature has different ideas about gardening than I do. For instance, I would never dream of putting a sunflower seed in the ground before the end of May. However, the birds have planted pounds of them, and they are already 2-3 inches tall and don't seem to notice the frost...
My lilacs are budding- but not opening. Do they "know" something?? I am babying nasturtium in the greenhouse- I see they have self-seeded in the garden, and are growing!! Nature is always full of surprises!

 

[digitS']

I really suspect plants respond to the length of the day, also.

That would explain why the wild Klamath plum at the edge of my big veggie garden, perfectly capable of withstanding winter cold because of its native habitat, never ever produces more than about a dozen plums.

They are well back in the tree, protected from the frost. It always blooms too early but, maybe this year .

Collector, did you know that there are 2 Mica Peaks? Now, this is kind of double the frustration that JoJo is talking about . . . Two!

Yep, go to Liberty Lake on google maps and switch to "terrain." Then, continue to click the "+" button. There is a Mica Peak south of the lake and one about 5 miles to the northeast just inside Idaho.

You can probably only see the one to the west and that's a good thing. I can see both from my big veggie garden. I once stood and listened to a neighbor tell me about that idea of snow on Mica/planting.

Sure enough, as we stood there he was looking at one mountain and I was looking at the other !

Steve

 

[digitS']

Since a cold spring has weighed so heavily on gardeners here, I have tried to pay special attention to what the plants have been doing, when.

April set a record for having the coldest average temperature ever. A few more low temperature records were set around the region last week. It was 35F on May 27th, in my garden. Albeit not record-setting, the last frosts were on the mornings of May 16th & 17th.

In fact, we have kind of slipped into the growing season here. On our only day with a high above 75, winds were gusting above 40mph! Well, I guess we weren't slipping anywhere that day - maybe slightly into Montana . . . :/

Full-bloom of the common lilacs came and once again, no frost-damage occurred. But the timing was close, very close.

Another very successful plant, the dandelion has now bloomed-its-fool-head-off ! We all know the dandelion and have seen how its flowers respond to darkness by closing. It is sensitive enough that daylight will not prompt the bloom to reopen, the dandelion requires sunshine .

Relying on my memories, I don't seem to have any problem recalling the image of frost on dandelion plants, even those with flower buds. However, the development of the stem and seed-head comes a few days after blooming - a few at first, then many more of the stems shoot up another 2 or 3 inches, and the seeds begin to mature.

The stem thins during its final growth. It may have happened on the 16th and 17th this year - a few of these stems had elongated and were frosted but that didn't happen in my yard. Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe that when this happens -- the stem is damaged to the extent that it folds over and the seed-head drops back onto the ground.

The dandelions held onto their seeds about 4 days before they were released this year. I believe that these 4 days were necessary for the seed to fully mature. The seed wouldn't be viable if that process had been interrupted by the stem freezing.

There it is! When dandelions begin to mature seed, the danger of frost has passed.

Of course, the dandelion doesn't have a hot line to heaven. Still, given the success of this little creature - I'm convinced that it is responding appropriately to past events with great sensitivity. All this, despite the dandelion's reputation for vanity and trivial behavior.

Steve

now if you have read all this, to my way of thinking, you deserve a treat. the linked youtube video has nothing to do with dandelions and frost but it does have to do with treats! have your speakers on and click the cool sun: :coolsun !!

 

[patandchickens]

There it is! When dandelions begin to mature seed, the danger of frost has passed.

We must have really different dandelions than you do, Steve

FOr one thing, dandelions here DO NOT require sunshine to open. Not hardly. It is darkly-cloudy here right now and has been all morning, and looking out the window, I see a whoooooole buncha fully-open dandelions. Both on the part of the lawn that was mowed yesterday before dinner (i.e. all today's blooms are opening for the first time) AND on the part that has not been mowed for some while (i.e. many of the blooms are *not* new)

And for another thing, dandelions here usually start blooming *weeks* before our usual last frost, and indeed they frequently do get zapped by it (as you say, it results in those sad "hanging-their-heads" blackened withered things) and since we usually get our first seed-heads maybe 10 days after the dandelions start blooming (I pay attention b/c the kids LOVE playing with dandelion clocks!) I am pretty sure that some of them have done that *before* the last frost.

(I would say 'I'll look this year" but it seems quite possible that we will have no more frost this year... it has been soooo peculiar, a very late cold lingering wet spring but may have been a very *early* last-frost year, if the forecast holds)

given the success of this little creature - I'm convinced that it is responding appropriately to past events with great sensitivity.

Why "great sensitivity"??

It's not like dandelions can't afford to lose some blooms/seedset. An individual plant flowers repeatedly over a period of weeks. I sincerely doubt there is particularly strong selective pressure against sometimes losing one flower's seed set to frost. Especially given that there is usually a strong benefit, for opportunistically-seeding plants like dandelions, to getting your seeds out there early so they've got less competition for germinating and growing up.

Sorry, I just don't buy it. It is certainly *possible* that it happens to work out that way in your particular place (and really, that's the main thing for a gardener -- to work out the timing of things for YOUR PROPERTY, even if it doesn't work at all the same way elsewhere) but it sure doesn't seem to HERE.

I think dandelions are so successful simply because they are hardy and very competitive buggers that set far-travelling seed in wild abundance

(Incidentally, if I'm right and we are NOT getting any more frost this year, that means our last actual frost on this property was three and a half weeks earlier than usual. Wow.)

Pat

 

[Collector]

That is way to funny!! How do you get rid of dandylions without any chems? We stopped using weed killer on our grass a couple years ago and the dandylions a trying to take over!! We happen to live across the road from a seed cleaning plant, and there seems to bee a steady drift of weed seeds coming over here all the time. It is starting to make our yard look not so good..