Jason from NH here.

[jasonvivier]

again!

I like your setup and the ideology surrounding it. I'm working towards something similar, but it's hard to get all of that set up well with rented land. In 2014 the vegetable garden was only weeded once or twice. Sure some plants got crowded out and died, but what did survive thrived. I got about 4x as much from one cucumber plant last year than I got from one in seasons before, using the same varieties. I planted a huge mix of beans and got more than I could keep track of. I did have huge "infestations" of all kinds of "pests" in the garden, but they didn't harm a thing, either they were busy eating the weeds or the ecology in the garden was healthy enough to keep the pests down. I did have a lot of camomile growing in there, they reseed like crazy.

How are the Kajari Melons? I was considering buying them from the Explorer Series section of Baker Creek not too long ago, but decided that I was spending too much money on vegetable seeds.

Can't wait to hear more from you!

Kajari melons are the best. But I think Baker Creek is sold out. I'll make some seed available if I can after the season ends.

 

[jasonvivier]

Welcome from northeast Texas! Just moved to 8 acres and will be planting much of what you listed. Have gardened year around in front yard garden in southeast Texas, can't wait to get started here. Where do you want to move to?

My wife has been looking at jobs around Austin, so probably San Marco or another surrounding area. It is hard to know really though; my wife is at the end of her pH.d classes (way smarter than me...) and we will be relocating so she can find a university teaching position somewhere.

 

[Nyboy]

Want to hear more on your fruit trees, that you don't spray. I have been looking into disease resistant apples and grapes. I am hoping for no spray, just because I know I will never have time to do it. Thats what I like about my pear tree, I do nothing to it and get pears. I gave up on cherries after killing about 15 trees.

 

[jasonvivier]

Hi Jasonvivier,

Welcome to TEG !

I enjoyed reading your posts on the perennial kale thread.

Steve

Here is a purple tree collard cutting. It's hard to stop this plant from growing; Just snip snip, put it in some dirt and there it goes.

 

[jasonvivier]

Welcome tell us more about your fruit trees, a few of us will be planting them this spring.

Full disclosure - I'm am not formally trained in horticulture and am only reporting what I have seen work in my garden(s). Also prepare for a long post void of any original ideas.

When I drive down the road and I look right or left I see where the forest edges is. If you look at that you'll notice that a tree is never alone. It took some books for me to even consider looking at the edge of the forest but when I did I realized this had to be the easiest way to plant a tree. Nature has been doing it for millions of years why should I presume to know better?

There are always other trees around and shrubs and ferns and all kinds of plant diversity really. I plant my fruit trees like they are at the edge of a forest.

These characteristics are worth considering;

1. The have to be mulched; I wait for my neighbors to clean their yards and I grab their yard waste.
   1. This provides food and habitat for insects and worms, which produces fertilizer in a sense.
   2. It lessens evaporation by keeping the sun off of the soil
   3. It protects the soil
   4. It stops/suppresses weeds
2. They generally are surrounded by other plants; some successfully and others not so much. Successful trees usually have
   1. A ground cover, a plant that provides mulch for the tree
   2. Tap rooted plants; these mine soil from beneath the roots of the trees and die back. No body has done the research but the assumption is that when the plant dies back are distributes nutrients that were out of reach of the tree to the surface of the soil; basically making those nutrients that were out of reach of the tree available again.
   3. A berry or something that birds eat, in my forests that is usually low bush blueberry. (Phosphorous)
   4. Herbaceous plants
   5. And really successful trees have nitrogen fixers around them. So beans, lupine, or other trees that fix nitrogen.
   6. Habitat for beneficial insects
3. We don't water the forest
   1. Mulch keeps water in the ground, thick diverse mulch.
   2. Mulch plants; Corn, Jerusalem Artichokes, Sunflowers, Comfrey, Rhubarb, Melon leafs, tomatoes that have been cut out at the end of the season, aggressive perennials that need to be cut back.
   3. I always slow any water down that would pass by my tree. You can dig a ditch on the high slope, let it fill and weep into a berm on the low slope of the tree. There are exceptions to this, like Paw Paw, which when young are prone to root rot but also die if they get too much sun lol figures.

So I try to do that. A ground cover: Strawberry; chamomile, periwinkle, melons, sweet potato (I don't actually grow that,) A nutrient accumulator; Comfrey, Borage, Queen Ann's lace, A berry; A Nitrogen fixer; Siberian Pea Shrub, Lupine, Beans, A Mulch plant; I use Rhubarb, Borage, Hardy Banana*, Corn, Sunflowers, and habitat can be herbaceous plants, old sticks, logs, straw (Spiders).

This is generally called forest gardening.

 

[jasonvivier]

Want to hear more on your fruit trees, that you don't spray. I have been looking into disease resistant apples and grapes. I am hoping for no spray, just because I know I will never have time to do it. Thats what I like about my pear tree, I do nothing to it and get pears. I gave up on cherries after killing about 15 trees.

I have had trees that could have benefited from spraying. To immediately resolve a problem sprays work, but to fix the environment that creates the problem takes time. Generally I've been able to fix issues that require spraying by mulching with diverse mulches, companion planting and giving the trees everything they need to adjust. More times than not the trees survive and go on to produce nicely. If they don't they get removed from the ecosystem and are turned into mulch, they have lost their ability to adjust to the environment and are not welcomed in it. This is what nature does anyhow.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I don't think I've welcomed you yet, so welcome! Please pardon my late manners.

One of the problems with insects or diseases on fruit trees is that the fruit can have imperfections. Something can eat away the inside or cause skin imperfections, maybe cause actual rot or just scabbing or something that doesn't look good. You can lose a lot of your crop to this. If you are growing commercially this is unacceptable. Many people have a problem eating an apple with any imperfection at all even if they grew it themselves.

When I eat an apple outside, usually one that fell off the tree, I eat around the imperfections, usually being careful when I bite but I always carry a pocket knife just in case it is needed. When I cook or preserve apples I cut away the bad and use the good. I do that kind of thing with all my fruits.

I'm not opposed to spraying when I know I have a specific problem but I just can't get the timing right. I wind up tossing a lot of the bad parts of apples to my chickens, but as long as a late frost doesn't get them, I still have enough fruit for my use.

 

[baymule]

What field of study is your wife's PHD in? Our DD is professor at Tyler Jr college and there is a University of Texas campus in Tyler. There is Sam Houston college in Huntsville (nice small town couple hours from Houston ) Stephen F Austin in Nacogdoches plus several more here Behind the Pine Curtain. LOL Land in Austin /San Marcos area is insanely expensive.

 

[jasonvivier]

What field of study is your wife's PHD in? Our DD is professor at Tyler Jr college and there is a University of Texas campus in Tyler. There is Sam Houston college in Huntsville (nice small town couple hours from Houston ) Stephen F Austin in Nacogdoches plus several more here Behind the Pine Curtain. LOL Land in Austin /San Marcos area is insanely expensive.

I'm pretty sure it is in Curriculum Theory? lol

 

[jasonvivier]

I don't think I've welcomed you yet, so welcome! Please pardon my late manners.

One of the problems with insects or diseases on fruit trees is that the fruit can have imperfections. Something can eat away the inside or cause skin imperfections, maybe cause actual rot or just scabbing or something that doesn't look good. You can lose a lot of your crop to this. If you are growing commercially this is unacceptable. Many people have a problem eating an apple with any imperfection at all even if they grew it themselves.

When I eat an apple outside, usually one that fell off the tree, I eat around the imperfections, usually being careful when I bite but I always carry a pocket knife just in case it is needed. When I cook or preserve apples I cut away the bad and use the good. I do that kind of thing with all my fruits.

I'm not opposed to spraying when I know I have a specific problem but I just can't get the timing right. I wind up tossing a lot of the bad parts of apples to my chickens, but as long as a late frost doesn't get them, I still have enough fruit for my use.

I don't let my garden be work, I go into the garden to relax. And I am one of those lazy gardeners lol. If my tree can't survive with the tools it has and I've done everything I can for it without introducing external inputs than it becomes compost and I put a new tree there. That way I'm left with only trees that can adapt. Having said that, I haven't had that occur yet. Heavy mulches, and companion planting seem to supply my trees with the nutrients they need to be pest and disease resistant. To me the only important thing to do with a tree is give the soil around it the conditions required to build diverse soil (which again is mulching and companion planting.)

Here is a before and after of the soil around a blueberry that is companion planted with a grape, strawberries, Siberian pea shrub, Rhubarb, walking onion, parsley and a paw paw. * I'll include pictures as the season comes along

Its been about three years of dropping plant material on the ground around the companions to get the soil as it is above. I've given up on watering (I can get away with that in my climate)

Interestingly enough I never clean my garden, I have to admit that I make it more of a mess. I grab lawn bags from other peoples houses in fall and dump their leaves twigs and grass around my plants. haha. When I need to plant I pull back the mulch, seed a spot, put the mulch back and then walk away. lol

Lazy, lazy lazy.