No Till questions

[seedcorn]

Journey, just because it's on the net doesn't make it correct--calling minimum till no-till. No-till is just that, no tillage of any type. Hoeing is considered tillage. That was the subject title.

Since one of our agronomists no-tills his garden, I am interested in how different people were handling it. I thought my giving 30 years worth of observations with this practice on a large scale would be of benefit. Guess not. I b out.

 

[897tgigvib]

Digit, that tool is for garden soil that I have and am building.

Journey, what you speak of in post 2 is the way to go. But I would go for about 70 or 80 percent compost and amendments. Save the clay for the paths.

Some musings...

Soil building takes years, and I suppose never ends, just reduces.

That composted compost you put in your bed? Look at it in a year. It should look different. smaller particles, the soil color, i don't know, infiltrated into the particles. I'm getting some that has a kind of soft feel in the hand, hard to describe.

The new compost shrinks a lot the first year, the soil level slowly drops in the bed. Add more new to it, under the old A yard for 20 feet of 4 foot wide bed is a good minimum. The compost not mixed in the soil seems to ripen to perfection better and faster than that mixed in, but sometimes it needs to be mixed in.

Except my berry bed. There the new compost goes worked in on the top.

 

[Kassaundra]

I do not use a mechanical tiller in my garden, I have runner grass to deal with and tillers just chop the roots and spread it. I also have my garden time as "my" time which means the noisyest thing I garden with is my rooster. I also do not do traditional rowed gardens, I started attempting mandalla (circles) but it quickly morphed into a hexagon instead easier to fence angles then curves. I do move the dirt though, I just use hand tools to do it with. My husband tills w/ the tiller, but not in my garden he tills the edges of the garden and beds to help me keep the runnergrass under some control. I use radish mostly as a ground cover too, easy to grow through most of the winter and feeds the feeder insects I raise to feed my chickens, and when I get the meat buns the tops can be fed to them.

 

[digitS']

... Soil building takes years, and I suppose never ends, just reduces. . . The new compost shrinks a lot the first year, the soil level slowly drops in the bed. Add more new to it, under the old A yard for 20 feet of 4 foot wide bed is a good minimum. . .

I once had 2 "little veggie gardens." I would take nearly all of my plant wastes from the big veggie and one little veggie and make and use compost in just one of the little veggie gardens.

What that means is that I was pulling plant wastes from about 5 times the area and putting it all in one place! Did I have enuf compost to cover that little veggie garden???? Not even close - I'd do one-half each year.

When was I going to get compost in the remainder of my garden? It was, after all, 10 times the size??! Essentially, I wasn't . . . Continuing on the course I'd set out - I was moving all that material to a very small area and building, building, building that soil.

Who has enough compost? Something of a rule of thumb is that your compost pile should reduce by 50% before you may even dare call it "compost." It ain't done. I doubt if more than 10% of that "compost" remains in the soil in 7 years. I cringe to think about what is going on in places with much warmer climates .

I don't have any real good ideas about making and using compost other than - don't allow any organic material to go to waste. And, if your soil can grow something, even if it isn't something that you can harvest for the kitchen, grow it for your compost. Or, to turn it under . . . Let me rephrase that: grow it for your soil organisms!

You can't keep up and they can't eat sawdust. As a gardener, you will benefit from giving the soil critters a good, balanced diet. There is supposed to be a Chinese saying about there not being "bad soil" - just soil that hasn't been worked enough. What is working with soil? I'd say it is just feeding it and the way most of us with larger gardens are going to find food for our soil is to grow plants.

Steve

 

[Kassaundra]

I totally agree about not ever having enough compost!!!!!! Never ending battle. I compost most garden waste, all yard trimmings, (both lawn, well I doubt my neighbors call in lawn, and tree) and still have no where near enough. My brother works for a tree chipping company so recently I've been "hooked" up w/ free wood chips, that may help me tip the balance. (getting a couple dump truck loads per year ought to make a dent at least). I learned about another source that is generally free for the picking, contact your local school about thier FFA/ AG programs where they grow animals for show you can get wood chips mixed w/ animal poo for the asking and manual labor of moving it generally. I also pick up any/all bagged tree leaves I find in the fall.

 

[thistlebloom]

Journey, just because it's on the net doesn't make it correct--calling minimum till no-till. No-till is just that, no tillage of any type. Hoeing is considered tillage. That was the subject title.

Since one of our agronomists no-tills his garden, I am interested in how different people were handling it. I thought my giving 30 years worth of observations with this practice on a large scale would be of benefit. Guess not. I b out.

This is an interesting discussion, a subject that I know just a little bit about and would like to learn more. I have practiced "no till" in former gardens on a small scale.

I'm interested in your experience Seedcorn, I think you inject some valuable insight into the topic.

 

[bobm]

The Columbian newspaper, Wed. April 10, 2013 : To summerise... 85 year old woman baught her city house in Hazel Dell, Wa. in 1970. She and her husband practiced organic permaculture/ no till gardening/ landscaping ever since. Many complaints from her neighbors on the unkept / wild looking of the property, so she gave seminars on the subject 4 times a year. 2 years ago she donated her home to a non profit that practiced what she preached. She then took residency in a rest home as she was becomming frail. 3 tenants were given residency to the home in exchange for their labor to keep up on the practice. The property became a total eyesore with weeds galore, the house in disrepair within 2 years. This woman was very unhappy with the handling of her former property, so she voiced her opinion to the non profit. Result : the non profit deeded the property back to the woman and she moved back into her old home. It is unclear what she plans next as she physically is not able to do the upkeep work .

 

[vebwerch]

«Демократия несовершенна, но ничего лучше человечество
пока не придумало», – сказал Уинстон Черчилль.
Так ли это?
Наука развивается семимильными шагами и теперь человечество
знает то, чего не знал английский премьер-министр. Он не знал,
например, о Законе Тождества Противоположного. Вы тоже о нем
не знаете? Какая жалость! Между тем этот Закон позволяет понять,
в чем ошибались в свое время коммунисты и в чем ошибаются в
наше время демократы. Главной их ошибкой является ПРОТИВОРЕЧИЕ
между ПРОТИВОПОЛОЖНЫМИ формами собственности и власти. Нужно
понимать, что речь идет о Частной и Государственной
Собственности и, соответственно, о Личной и Общественной
Власти. Если бы политики не придумывали свои законы, а
ПОЗНАВАЛИ и если бы они выбросили на помойку истории термин
"законотворчество" и вооружились термином ЗАКОНОПОЗНАНИЕ
(объективный закон нельзя придумать - его можно только познать),
то дело пошло бы на лад.
Так вот, согласно Закону Тождества Противоположного, который
пока, к сожалению, не преподают в школах, коммунисты совершили
трагическую ошибку, поставив государственную собственность
НАД частной, а общественную власть над личной. Результат -
социально-экономический кризис. Причина - нарушение Закона
Тождества (РАВНОВЕСИЯ) Противоположного. По сути, они
национализировали частную собственность и обобществили
личность.
Что делают сегодня демократы? Они делают то же самое, что
делали коммунисты, только с точностью до наоборот. Они
приватизировали государственную собственность и личность
сегодня фактически плюет на общественные нормы и устои.
Другими словами, современная демократия - это форменный
произвол личности по отношению к обществу. Результат -
социально-экономический кризис.
Однако, не будем отходить от Буквы Закона.
Так вот, согласно ОБЪЕКТИВНОМУ Закону Тождества
Противоположного, на котором, между прочим, СТОИТ ВСЕЛЕННАЯ,
не нужно национализировать частную собственность и не нужно
приватизировать государственную. Нужно просто сесть и
разобраться, что есть частная собственность и что есть
государственная, а затем передать Частную Собственность -
Личности (ТОВАРОПРОИЗВОДСТВО), а Государственную Собственность
- Обществу (СЫРЬЕ). При этом даже можно отказаться от системы
налогообложения (придуманной господами для своих холопов),
поскольку производить частную собственность и, следовательно,
обогащаться можно будет только через производство материальных
и духовных ценностей, не обкладывая налогом Творца этих самых
ценностей, а продавая ему сырье для производства его товаров.
Если же допустить к общественной собственности личность, то
мы превратим людей не в творцов, а паразитов, которые будут
жить за счет эксплуатации наших природных богатств, а не за
счет производства товаров и услуг. Так называемый феномен
олигархов.
Может, хватит смешить Вселенную и пора, наконец, построить
что-то получше демократии?

 

[journey11]

Ooookay...ran that thru Google translate. Not sure what that has to do with anything. :/ (The spam.)

If you're mulching it like you're supposed to, there's not much hoeing to do anyway. Some people work it with a rake. Weeds pull up easily by hand out of that decomposing mulch. As I said, I don't think we were discussing quite the same thing. As if there were hard and fast rules in the home garden anyway.

Anyhow, that's how I get most of my compost too, Kassaundra. There's enough places around here that don't want/appreciate theirs, that I am able to haul in quite a lot of new biomass. My horse wastes a lot of hay and I drag that home too. Cut at the right time, you don't have many seeds to deal with. (If you cut it after it goes to seed, the hay has lost a lot of it's feed value and becomes "stemmy".)

 

[897tgigvib]

If she was 85 in 1970, by now she's starting to get frail and she is now 128.

And, she was doing permaculture before it was even called that.