"Organic" fertilizers

[catjac1975]

It is impossible to stay away from all of the toxins that have been put into our environment. Organic feed for animals is for the wealthy and I would not even know where to get it. However I would use all manure that you can get, If you have to buy it so be it. The bigger issue is what you DON"T use on your plants. Fungicides, herbicides, pesticides and chemical fertilizers. Even chemical fertilizers harm the soil not your plants. For all of the problems that you can encounter there are organic alternatives to use. I need to use very little on my garden, and I only use a bit of organic pesticides. Last summer was the first time in years I needed to kill some pests. The organic mantra is healthy plants do not attract insects. Remember, just because you see a bad insect does not mean they will destroy your crop

 

[seedcorn]

Couple things. All -cides are pesticides. It's broken into groups. Herbicides kill plants. Insecticides kill insects, fungicides kill fungus. Not all are man made.

If it's not man made, some think its safe, wrong. Miss use of natural fertilizers can cause as many environmental problems as commercial fertilizers. Prime example is algae bloom from manure. Manure is a good thing in moderate levels.

Insects are attracted to healthier plants to lay eggs and feed. When you see an unhealthy plant, they've already done their damage and may have moved on.

 

[hoodat]

I don't know how accurate this is but I've read that the GMOs don't carry over into the manure and that plants can't pick up GMOs from soil, only by cross polination with a GMO plant.

 

[catjac1975]

Right now I have a fairly small garden, about 16x8, plus a strip for sunflowers. I am afraid that the learning curve has been very steep for me. The first year I tried gardening all of my plants died almost instantly, despite everything I did to help them. I stopped for a long time and tried again last year, and got peas...everything else died. I spent the winter pouring over books in the library, and recently reading the archives of this forum, and we shall see.

I don't really need the organic label to be satisfied with my crops. I think if they (the plants) simply grow up in plain dirt instead of a chemical stew, avoid being picked while green and shipped half the world around, and have chickens instead of insecticide that will do.

Our property is about half an acre, and I can have as many gardens as I want on it - front and back. I'm currently doing a fundraiser on "Go Fund Me" to try and raise enough money for a 5 acre property, and if I get that I'll grow food for local families as well. (At least they'll have locally grown eggs...not sure about the vegetables yet!)

I cannot even imagine what could have killed all of your plants. Gardening is just not that hard. I can only figure that you did not water. Plants need steady moisture. A light watering daily until they take hold.

 

[NwMtGardener]

Ok i have to post this link as a rebuttal of the previous article i posted. It offers some good arguments in support of organic eating and farming.

 

[seedcorn]

Appreciate the new article. Did I understand the jist of his argument is that heavier doses of organic pesticides is better than small doses of non-organic labeled pesticides? So if I use the juice off of tobacco, that is ok but if I use a product called Votivo which is the nicotine (active chemical in tobacco) in lighter doses that is bad.

Why do the proponents of organic ignore the real problems. That is that true organic only exists in theory. All livestock are fed non-organic grain, in fact may be GMO.

Again, prefer non-chemical usage but get (not sure of word) when someone portrays themselves as better using same products. End of rant!

 

[digitS']

I am glad you have done both, Heather.

As, really, both authors have suggested - It is Not as Straightforward as You Think. As a population, we are dependent on the food industry. Generally, I don't think it is wise to have so much "demonizing" of our regulatory agencies just for that one fact. And, it is a fact. You are not gonna see 99.9% of our population take honest to goodness control of food production. Probably not better than .9%.

I once asked an organic orchardist what he could do about worms in his cherries. In a moment of truthfulness, he said, I spray & spray. Yeah, less persistence may mean more spraying. One "organic" pesticide is still the preferred one for the wildlife agencies to use to kill fish. Less dangerous in our waterways because it is organic? I don't know about that.

We aren't using them to entertain the pests. If they are not a problem, don't use the pesticides. They sure aren't used because the farmer enjoys spending money on them. But, we should be continuing to ask for safer and not trust the industry.

One thing that comes to mind with regard to nicotine, my understanding is that it is no longer commercially available. The simple reasons are that it is considered too toxic and there are less-toxic alternatives.

People with more scientific knowledge than I have made those decisions. Good for them - I'm inclined to trust them on that.

Steve

 

[AMKuska]

Thanks for the great link. I didn't realize quite how deep the rabbit hole goes, as far as organic vs. non-organic

 

[seedcorn]

You can't buy nicotine but you can easily make it. Commercial Ag uses it in extremely small doses on seed. It is regulated.

 

[NwMtGardener]

It IS a really complicated issue. That's why I like to read multiple and even contradictory opinions.

So the 2nd article in support of organic brings up what my biggest issue was with the 1st article - how much can we trust EPA (or "industry") data on pesticides? I can think of tons of examples of things the EPA initially said were safe, then turned out to have devastating consequences. I just think the scientific information that we need to make good decisions on these chemicals just isnt "out there" - not done because of financial reasons, or even bcause we havent developed advanced enough scientific techniques. And there's a lot of conflicting studies that really muddy the waters.

I feel like the 1st article brings up a really good point though - it sure seems better (IMHO) to eat a conventionally grown apple as opposed to some processed, packaged snack that's marked organic.

And for us, gardeners, we have to consider "organic vs, conventional" not just as the consumer, but as the grower as well. Its a double whammy for me to be exposed while spraying a pesticide AND then while eating my produce.

I guess for me the answer is moderation. Sometimes i buy organic. Sometimes i dont feel like i can afford it. Honestly i think refined sugar should be more of an issue than it is - and maybe should be more of an issue than whether something is organic or not.