Planting Pecan Trees - Need Advice

[JimWWhite]

I just bought three 6' Gloria Grande Papershell pecan trees that came with the roots in spagham moss in a plastic bag. They're a Stuart pecan variety. I now know that I will need to find another variety for pollination purposes even though we have a lot of hickory trees in the woods very close by. Anyways, our soil is about 8" of top soil that sits on some heavy yellow clay that doesn't perk or drain very well. I cut the hole 42" deep and 24" wide based on the instructions on the planting guide printed on the plastic. Actually I went down about 6" deeper than recommended because I'm planning to add about 6" of gray granite gravel to the bottom of the hole for drainage. That's one thing probably out of the normal. I'm also thinking about cutting off a 4' section of 2" PVC pipe and drilling out 8 to 10 1/8" holes at different levels along the length of the pipe. And then stand it up in the hole and the fill in the hole covering the root ball and all. My thinking is twofold which may be flawed and that's why I'm asking advice. First it gives us a way to make sure water gets all the way down to the roots and the pipe can act as a reservoir in the summertime. Second, I'm thinking that when it's really wet and water may be standing in the bottom of the hole in the wintertime, etc. that it will act as a way to allow some of the water to naturally evaporate out. And in order to keep bugs, etc. out I'll cover the end of the pipe with some fine mesh screen wire fabric.

I planted 6 trees about 10 years ago in another area but I cut the holes too small and didn't really do anything special except to fill the holes back in with the dirt I took out of the hole to begin with. All 6 died from root rot. And at $40 a tree I don't want to go down that road again. And that's why I'm asking my friends and the great minds of gardening on this site for their input.

Any ideas or comments on this would be greatly appreciated.

ps: By the way, in the South we pronounce it 'Pea-KAHN'. Not 'PEE-Can'...

 

[897tgigvib]

Over the course of decades I have tried to order butternut, walnut, and pecan trees from out of state to california. All those really great varieties, you know? Every time I try to order, my money gets sent back saying they can't ship them to california. During the time i lived in montana i did not try to get any. What is it? They can't ship them to california? Must be the commynist plot! So anyhow, I have no experience to help you with, probably only cuz of the commynist plot to keep the best nut trees out of california. (gotsta have some humor 'bout it. I'm not gonna blame the bigfoot kids on this one!)

 

[bobm]

I use the 4" diamaeter sewer line plastic pipe with holes already drilled ... 10' section cut into thirds makes for 3 42" sections. For the holes... I got a 12" auger on a tractor and dug 3 12" holes side by side as deep as the auger would go , then put some gravel in the bottom. I install the pipe with the top sticking out above ground level about 4 " , backfill then plant the trees. I also installed a drip irrigation system so that each pvc pipe had a drip into it at the top. I also placed a flat rock over the top so that toads wouldn't drop down to the pipe bottom in search of moisture, also plant leaf dropings. I planted almond, cherry, apple , beefwood , and 80 Redwood trees around the 2 acres of the ranch house site. All are still thriving after 15 years.

 

[JimWWhite]

BobM, What kind of soil do you have? We've got this nasty stuff they call Bull Tallow or something like that which is a greyish yellow heavy clay that just won't perk. We have a septic system with a dual leech field field each having 3 lines. I have to switch the lines over with a valve every six months so to give one set a rest while the other set takes in the load. This time I'm planting the pecan trees on a down slope so the water won't just stand like I had before were it drowned my trees. But still, my holes will have to go down into the clay. I'm going to replace the soil and clay I take out each hole with good top soil and that should help the trees get started but I'm just not sure what it will do once the roots start needing more room. Will the trees just get root-bound and be stunted or even die?

 

[vfem]

Over the course of decades I have tried to order butternut, walnut, and pecan trees from out of state to california. All those really great varieties, you know? Every time I try to order, my money gets sent back saying they can't ship them to california. During the time i lived in montana i did not try to get any. What is it? They can't ship them to california? Must be the commynist plot! So anyhow, I have no experience to help you with, probably only cuz of the commynist plot to keep the best nut trees out of california. (gotsta have some humor 'bout it. I'm not gonna blame the bigfoot kids on this one!)

Have them shipped to a neighboring state and take a day trip to pick them up! I would!

 

[JimWWhite]

BobM, Unfortunately I'm going to have to dig the holes by hand using a shovel, post hole diggers, and a heavy breaker bar. I cut the first hole in about 30 minutes and got down 36" pretty quickly but the next 6" was a lot of work. When I got down below 36" the clay got hard and dry and was really difficult to work.

Are you referring to the 4" black plastic pipe they use for french drains, etc. around the foundation of houses? I though about using that but thought the 2" might be better. I'll have to rethink my plans since you say it worked well for you. It would make for a larger reservoir, plus it would probably be cheaper than the rigid white pipe.

 

[897tgigvib]

Actually, I now might be able to do that since my sister moved to Reno...then it's a matter of smuggling them in past the agricultural checkpoints...

...I visualize it now...

setting in jail with thieves and drive by shootists, some major dealer asking me what I'm in for...
"smuggling a nut tree"

...uh, the guys in prison would just adore the nut tree smuggler!,,,

swing low sweet chariot!

 

[JimWWhite]

Naw... It'd be like Alice's Restaurant where Arlo was sent to the Group 'W' Bench with all the Mother Rapers and Father Rapers. When one of them asked him what he did he said he littered and they all moved away from him. But transporting of and procession of illicit nut trees in the state of California, Man you'd get life plus. But because you'd be the baddest @$$ there, you'd be king. You'd be the Drag Line of the yard.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I thought I was in heavy clay when I tried digging holes when I moved here but when I did some perk tests, that water was gone in 1-1/2 to 2 hours. That means good drainage. I was pleasantly surprised.

If your soil is that heavy it just may be you can't grow those trees even planting on a slope and putting in some real good drainage. Even doing that, I would not expect them to really thrive when the roots tried to spread out. Pecans grow slowly and take a long time to bear. At $40 a pop plus all the work and expense of putting in a good drainage system, I don't think I'd risk it.

I know you already have those three. Do you have other trees growing and thriving somewhere there that also need decent drainage? Maybe the soil in that area would be better?

I've seen pecan trees thriving in old drained swamp muck with a fairly high water table in South Louisiana. I'm not sure how much drainage they really need or how deep their roots really grow. If you can get them started, maybe you have a better chance that I'd expect. I'm no expert.

I've planted several small trees here but they are really slow growing. And I had to put fencing around each one to keep the deer from eating them to the ground. That did not help with the first few I planted but they were the cheap ones grown from seed, not the expensive grafted ones. They came back from the roots so all I lost was a couple of years growth.

 

[bobm]

BobM, What kind of soil do you have? We've got this nasty stuff they call Bull Tallow or something like that which is a greyish yellow heavy clay that just won't perk. We have a septic system with a dual leech field field each having 3 lines. I have to switch the lines over with a valve every six months so to give one set a rest while the other set takes in the load. This time I'm planting the pecan trees on a down slope so the water won't just stand like I had before were it drowned my trees. But still, my holes will have to go down into the clay. I'm going to replace the soil and clay I take out each hole with good top soil and that should help the trees get started but I'm just not sure what it will do once the roots start needing more room. Will the trees just get root-bound and be stunted or even die?

Jim, My place is in the high desert of Central Cal. ... the soils are what was deposited from errosion and floods from the streams from the Sierra Nevada Mts. .So move 10' and the soil changes from black, green, yellow, white clays with a top coat of some very little topsoil from decomposed grasses. There too is a hardpan ( hard as a rock/ concrete creating an area akin to a clay pot with no drainage) that is 2"- 10" thick and meandering wavelike from just below the surface to 5' down. below that is a mixture of decomposed granite /sand mix. By digging a hole that is 3' in diameter and adding a little horse manure , the roots will have a chance to establish themselves before it is compacted again and since I had to use a wrecking bar to get throught the hardpan that was at or just below 42", this allowed for the water to drain slowly into the decomposed granite/ sand. I used the with a black plastic interior 4" diameter, 10' long sewer line pipe cut to 42" leanghts for the drip water to be deposited at the bottom to force the roots to go down in search of water and then reach the moist sandy layer beneath the hardpan. A little history ... this Great Valley that now boasts huge orchards of many kinds ( including pecans) that grow enough to export them all over the US and abroad... to establish them back in the 1950's-60's, they first drilled small holes through the clays and hardpan then used dinamite to blast through the hardpan to establish an area large enough to accomodate good drainage for the fruit tree roots then backfill the holes with bulldozers. In those areas where the hardpan was just below the surface, they used huge bulldozers with deep rippers to break through. I found that digging a 3' diameter hole was the minimum for the roots to espablish themselves and then spread into the undisturbed clays or they would ecome rootbound and eventually become stunted, succomb to desease and eventually die. I hope this helps ! :tools