Rhubarb and chickens

[BlueMoon]

Grandma just gave me two huge bags of her ancient rhubarb and I'm trying to find the best place to plant these. We have mostly sun, it's mostly so well drained that the dirt here becomes concrete.

We have about 100 free ranging chickens that I am concerned about eating the leaves. We also have three llamas that are close to the ideal spot. How poisonous is oxalic acid to chickens or llamas?

Also, with trying to amend the soil, we'll be using lots of the manure. How aged should the chicken manure be before using? I remember rhubarb as being an acidic plant - is that wrong?

 

[bills]

I really don't know if the chickens would pick at your rhubarb or not. They seem to be pretty good at figuring out what not to eat, although you never know.

This might be a good question to ask at the backyard chickens forum. A super site for poultry questions.

http://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/index.php

 

[patandchickens]

I would not *personally* worry about the chickens eating the rhubarb leaves, as long as the chickens are free-range enough to have lots of other things to do. (I wouldn't plant rhubarb in the run, for a variety of reasons in fact). However at the same time I will say that if for some reason a chicken took it into its fluffy little head to bolt down a large meal of rhubarb, you would likely be in for trouble.

I am not a llama person, but fwiw I would not put rhubarb where horses could access it. Again, they would be pretty unlikely to eat it if other things were available, but in late summer when the pickings get pretty thin, they certainly might try it, and my understanding is that it would not take too much, just one reasonable sized meal of it, to *at least* colic a horse if not worse. So personally I would not chance it. Surely there is somewhere that's *not* a llama paddock you could put it? It'll tolerate a bit of shade if it has to.

Amend the soil deeply, widely and generously with WELL composted/aged manure. I believe that you are right about rhubarb liking things on the acid side, anyhow it is a heavy feeder, dislikes drought in summer, and I think the general recommendation is to mulch with aged manure every spring (I do, anyhow). I would be leery of putting manure less than 4-6 months old where the roots will come into direct contact with it this year, but of course it depends on what the manure has been *doing* over those months... sitting indoors, composting in a hot pile, sitting in a small pile leaching from rain, etc.

Fortunately rhubarb is a pretty tough customer so even if you do something it doesn't totally appreciate, you're unlikely to kill it unless you really try hard

Good luck,

Pat

 

[poppycat]

I don't know about the llamas, but last fall my chickens ate every bit of leaf off of my rhubarb plants before I realized what they were up to. They all lived. When it came up this spring they made a mad dash for it, there must be something in it that they like. However its one of many many things they eat while freeranging.

 

[bills]

I don't know about the llamas, but last fall my chickens ate every bit of leaf off of my rhubarb plants before I realized what they were up to. They all lived. When it came up this spring they made a mad dash for it, there must be something in it that they like. However its one of many many things they eat while freeranging.

Well that's really something.:/ Here I thought it rhubarb leaves were supposed to be quite toxic. I guess those chickens are tougher than they look. I better not mess with them....

 

[Reinbeau]

What's toxic to humans isn't always toxic to other animals.

 

[patandchickens]

The toxic principle in rhubarb is oxalic acid, which in sufficient amounts is toxic to pretty much all mammals and birds as far as I know. Too much is hard on the digestive system and kidneys. Rhubarb is certainly not one of the most poisonous plants in the garden, though.

In my opinion the main reason it is so commonly on 'toxic plants' lists is that people sometimes boneheadedly try eating significant amounts of the leaves (e.g. cooked like kale) on the theory that it is after all an edible plant, and because of the ratio between "meal-sized portion of kale type greens" and human body size, people can make themselves fairly sick. That is not to say that animals will necessarily O.D. to that point.

I have no idea how oxalic acid concentrations in rhubarb leaves change with the seasons but I'm sure they do. Rhubarb leaves are generaly not too far from disintegration *anyhow* in the fall, I'm not sure how much chickens would actually have to *eat* to kill 'em. I'd wonder whether the chickens were going after the tender new shoots (from fall rains after summer drought -- mine do that a bit, even as the main mature leaves are dying back) and the leaves may have been mostly just scratching-around casualties? Dunno, just an idea.

Pat

 

[Reinbeau]

Well, I was thinking along the lines of things like poison ivy, whose berries are such a culinary delight for the birds, but if humans ate them, they'd be in a world of serious hurt, if not dead. Oxalic acid is present in many leafy greens (as you know, Pat), too much isn't good for us, I'm seriously wondering if it would bother a chicken at all.

 

[patandchickens]

Well, oxalic acid is pretty universally listed as toxic to birds. The main reason given is reducing the absorption of calcium but it is often said to have other effects as well. I do not know on the basis of what documentation.

Gotta go put the chickens in, do horses and pop a few plants in the ground before it gets dark so I do not have time for extensive googling at present but you could see what you could find.

Pat

 

[BlueMoon]

Thanks all! I've been given a new tilled bed, facing south, and will plant them tomorrow with as much fertilizer as I can collect. This bed is quite far from all intended animals.

I od'd on dandelion greens last week. Tasted good, after parboiling and sauteing, but that oxalic acid got me good!