nachoqtpie
Deeply Rooted
I'm looking at the new seed catalogs, and we're planning next years garden, and some are saying they are pole beans, and some say runner. What, if anything, is the difference?
Runner versus pole?
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Carol Dee
Garden Master
I always assumed they where the same thing, I will be interested to see if there is a differance.
Ridgerunner
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A bean question! I'm waiting on one specific person to see what they say.
I don't knwo if they are talking about something like the Scarlet Runner Beans or the white half-runners Mom likes so much.
I'll wait on Marshall's response.
I don't knwo if they are talking about something like the Scarlet Runner Beans or the white half-runners Mom likes so much.
I'll wait on Marshall's response.
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nachoqtpie
Deeply Rooted
There were a couple that said half runner...
I don't understand what the difference is.
I don't understand what the difference is.
journey11
Garden Master
I've planted scarlett runner beans before, but no other runners. It's my understanding that they do not climb quite as high as pole beans. They are also a whole other kind of bean, different genus...Phaseolus coccineus, while the pole beans are Phaseolus vulgaris. The two can't cross-pollinate. I think bush beans are also Phaseolus vulgaris. Marshall would know for sure.
Ridgerunner
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Half-runner narrows it down a bunch. There is a word of difference between a Scarlet Runner and a White Half-Runner.
Mom likes to grow White Half-Runner beans for green beans. They have a fairly small pod with small white beans if you let them go to maturity. Their growth habit is somewhere between a bush bean and a pole bean. They will send out those tendrils and you can support them. They won't fill a trellis but might get 3 feet or so long so all you need is a low support. Mom grows them like bush beans with no support and does fine.
Best I can remember they produce longer than most bush beans but not as long as true pole beans.
Mom likes to grow White Half-Runner beans for green beans. They have a fairly small pod with small white beans if you let them go to maturity. Their growth habit is somewhere between a bush bean and a pole bean. They will send out those tendrils and you can support them. They won't fill a trellis but might get 3 feet or so long so all you need is a low support. Mom grows them like bush beans with no support and does fine.
Best I can remember they produce longer than most bush beans but not as long as true pole beans.
baymule
Garden Master
Runner beans, pole beans??? The answer is simple.......Runner beans wear Nikes and Pole beans win the pole vaulting competitions. 
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nachoqtpie
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897tgigvib
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What Journey said is absolutely right, and what BayMule said wins the award!
Ah!
And then to add to the confusion, some vulgaris pole beans are called half runners! Half runners vigorously climb, but only like 4 or 5 feet.
I guess the British call Coccineus beans runner beans, and some europeans call those english beans
All the wordology is not very specific though. It's just the way convention set things I guess. Reality is, vulgaris varieties each have their own ARCHITECTURE of growth.
You can try an experiment. Grow one plant each of a bunch of different varieties. Grow each plant like a specimen, but give them the same soil, light and water and stuff.
Some bush varieties just plain stay small, and if a runner kind of starts off it toward the end of the season, it might go one or 2 nodes and stop.
That's what my sangre, turtle, and white rice vulgaris did, and my white baby limas did too. The white rice and turtle bean plants grew similar enough to make me think those 2 varieties are closely related, smallish tough leaves, shape of the plant. Sangre de Torro made large leaves deep green, very green stems and petioles, and toward the end made a 2 node runner each, that would probably not have wrapped around anything, just neatly laying over the next plant or on a cut down sunflower stump.
Some bush varieties grow actual runners toward the end of the season. Tennessee Green Pod does that. They run up a pole and flower. A few of them went up 5 feet and I'm selecting those separately. Those are not much determinate, and seemed to want to keep growing up to frost, making flowers to the end. Their seeds are also glossier. The Eye of the Tiger selection doing similar long runners do seem determinate though, a fat bud at the end, but wrapping poles. The poles I used for those were kind of smooth Madrone odd shape twiggy growth sticks.
Some pole beans are kind of wild growing and actually flop over on the ground as much as twine their way up. The Rio Zappe grow like that. I got as many pods on the ground as up on their nice course fir sticks. Anasazi, called a bush, grows like that too, but not as high, and their stems are fine, not thick.
Indian Woman Yellow is variable, but is mostly fine stemmed. Grows up a short 3 foot pole...except a selection im working on that grows 5 feet sometimes...and does not sprawl on the ground.
See? Setting bean plant architecture into pigeonholes neatly really is not the right thing. I guess seed companies just prefer to put them in categories, and if a variety does not fit in one category or another, well, they might not sell that variety. Maybe that's a reason some varieties are rare. Tennessee Green Pod is a bush bean, but give them a short pole if you want their full production. Oh, same with Tendergreen. Those will wrap a pole toward the season end to maybe 3 feet, but they are determinate I think.
Ah!
And then to add to the confusion, some vulgaris pole beans are called half runners! Half runners vigorously climb, but only like 4 or 5 feet.
I guess the British call Coccineus beans runner beans, and some europeans call those english beans
All the wordology is not very specific though. It's just the way convention set things I guess. Reality is, vulgaris varieties each have their own ARCHITECTURE of growth.
You can try an experiment. Grow one plant each of a bunch of different varieties. Grow each plant like a specimen, but give them the same soil, light and water and stuff.
Some bush varieties just plain stay small, and if a runner kind of starts off it toward the end of the season, it might go one or 2 nodes and stop.
That's what my sangre, turtle, and white rice vulgaris did, and my white baby limas did too. The white rice and turtle bean plants grew similar enough to make me think those 2 varieties are closely related, smallish tough leaves, shape of the plant. Sangre de Torro made large leaves deep green, very green stems and petioles, and toward the end made a 2 node runner each, that would probably not have wrapped around anything, just neatly laying over the next plant or on a cut down sunflower stump.
Some bush varieties grow actual runners toward the end of the season. Tennessee Green Pod does that. They run up a pole and flower. A few of them went up 5 feet and I'm selecting those separately. Those are not much determinate, and seemed to want to keep growing up to frost, making flowers to the end. Their seeds are also glossier. The Eye of the Tiger selection doing similar long runners do seem determinate though, a fat bud at the end, but wrapping poles. The poles I used for those were kind of smooth Madrone odd shape twiggy growth sticks.
Some pole beans are kind of wild growing and actually flop over on the ground as much as twine their way up. The Rio Zappe grow like that. I got as many pods on the ground as up on their nice course fir sticks. Anasazi, called a bush, grows like that too, but not as high, and their stems are fine, not thick.
Indian Woman Yellow is variable, but is mostly fine stemmed. Grows up a short 3 foot pole...except a selection im working on that grows 5 feet sometimes...and does not sprawl on the ground.
See? Setting bean plant architecture into pigeonholes neatly really is not the right thing. I guess seed companies just prefer to put them in categories, and if a variety does not fit in one category or another, well, they might not sell that variety. Maybe that's a reason some varieties are rare. Tennessee Green Pod is a bush bean, but give them a short pole if you want their full production. Oh, same with Tendergreen. Those will wrap a pole toward the season end to maybe 3 feet, but they are determinate I think.
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nachoqtpie
Deeply Rooted
Okay.... 
So... we have bush beans... yellow and green... they stay nice and bushy and compact and everything is good. They produce moderately well, but, we've never had enough to really have a meal with. I don't know if that's because we weren't picking enough??
So, next year I would like to put up some beans that will give us enough to eat, and hopefully at least a few to put up. I know our space is limited by the size of our garden... but I was hoping that maybe if I got pole/runner beans that we might be able to have a good amount of green beans this next year. I was thinking of ordering some Empress (which says bush habit) or Ideal Market (which says pole habit) from SSE.
I figured I could plant 2(pole) - 4(bush) rows in my 4' wide beds, plant 15-20 plants every week or two. Would that be sufficient for a family of 4? Should I plant more than 15-20 at a time?
Also, we were thinking about maybe trying something similar to the 3 sisters with our corn this year. Do you think we could do some type of dried bean, like Hidatsa red (SSE), which says it will climb to three feet, or should we do more of a pole bean with the corn?
I feel like I should know more than this by now... there's just SO MUCH to learn!
So... we have bush beans... yellow and green... they stay nice and bushy and compact and everything is good. They produce moderately well, but, we've never had enough to really have a meal with. I don't know if that's because we weren't picking enough??
So, next year I would like to put up some beans that will give us enough to eat, and hopefully at least a few to put up. I know our space is limited by the size of our garden... but I was hoping that maybe if I got pole/runner beans that we might be able to have a good amount of green beans this next year. I was thinking of ordering some Empress (which says bush habit) or Ideal Market (which says pole habit) from SSE.
I figured I could plant 2(pole) - 4(bush) rows in my 4' wide beds, plant 15-20 plants every week or two. Would that be sufficient for a family of 4? Should I plant more than 15-20 at a time?
Also, we were thinking about maybe trying something similar to the 3 sisters with our corn this year. Do you think we could do some type of dried bean, like Hidatsa red (SSE), which says it will climb to three feet, or should we do more of a pole bean with the corn?
I feel like I should know more than this by now... there's just SO MUCH to learn!
