Someone Else's Problem

digitS'

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Making poor decisions . . . we must all make decisions that don't "pan out" or were just outright, foolhardy! I made some of the oddest choices as a young person and just count my blessings that I had the resources, mostly just youth, to get past them.

Some folks continue decision-making that seems oddly designed to not pan out.

I was reminded of this reading nittygrittydirtdigger's response to Pam's "Rain rain go away go someplace that needs you." It may well be that hiring helicopters for days on end to dry a cherry crop makes sense, financially. I really wonder, tho'.

A neighbor retired from farming a couple years ago. Just before he did, I talked to him about his work. His family farm is 100 miles from his home and he would stay over there during important times of the year when his help was needed. I could tell that some of his work was causing him some irritation, even anger.

He had just returned that time from putting in a crop . . . in March. I was totally surprised!! I don't now even remember what they had planted. March is incredibly early to be putting anything in the ground in this part of the world. So, I expressed that surprise.

He said, "Well, you gotta do it if you want the crop insurance." Then, he gave me the idea that he fully expected the crop to fail. They would then plant wheat in the fall on that ground.

What happened? I suspect that the crop failed to produce what would have given a profit. They might not have even attempted to harvest it - he suggested that would be the result. It became Someone Else's Problem because they had crop insurance for it.

How the heck did some insurance company get enuf resources to make decisions on farming in the Columbia Basin that was so far off reality? Why would they do it? Crap shoot? Oh yeah, just barely possible that it would pay off. And, the farmers were playing them on it - even farmers who could afford to live 100 miles off the farm, in a nice suburban neighborhood. You should know that some of the Washington State farmers were indicted for crop insurance fraud not too long ago but I didn't see his family's name in the story - this problem was/is extremely broad and not just 4 out of the several thousand WA! farmers are involved. Moreover, I don't believe there was a conviction. I mean, the US taxpayers were backing up those insurance companies - making decisions on farming many thousands of miles from reality.

We all know it doesn't stop here. The entire nation of finance has been involved in a casino mentality just about forever and it has only gotten worse.

The neighbor lady was out for a walk yesterday afternoon. With her, was the little girl who lives another door down and who often plays in her yard. Holding her hand was her own granddaughter - tiny little thing who has just begun to walk. I stared at them in surprise as they went past my place.

First of all, I have never seen my neighbor out for a walk, with children or otherwise. She is a widow in her early 60's and has lived there for about 3 years now. Moreover, she recently had surgery on her shoulder and has been wearing a sling for about a month.

Secondly, the Weather Service was reporting a line of thunderstorms advancing from the south. The rain had actually been predicted all day but was slow in getting here. A few drops had begun to fall and the wind was really picking up. So, here was an injured lady with a neighbor's 4 year-old and a toddler clinging to her 1 free hand, off to see the neighborhood!

I got busy getting plants under a roof anticipating the hail, the chance was given for that and I wasn't going to take a gamble on it destroying some basil and eggplants still in containers. My garden was a sitting duck but these, I could move. The 3 ladies from next door continued on their way.

Before her surgery, the neighbor's lawn began to be somewhat overgrown. I mowed it for her once last year but she had bought another mower since then. The father of the little girl was over in her driveway tinkering with it several hours one day - then, made a total mess trying to get thru the tall grass for the 1st time mowing. She reported that the mower was now useless and I've been mowing over there for the last 4 weeks.

Her family? Oh yeah, a son and daughter live not far away. I sometimes see her daughter sitting in the backyard. I'm always wondering about the chair . . . that lady must weigh close to 400 pounds! I honestly don't think she could navigate about the yard to get it mowed if she had a machine to use. The son? He could be as heavy but he is a foot taller than his sister. He works full-time, I guess. Grandma picks up his son at school and has the toddler all the time. She says that there's childcare but it doesn't seem to be working out real well for the family. His wife recently left him - Grandma had a "good riddance" story about that.

What's going on with helping Grandma now that she is incapacitated and needs lawncare? As best as I can tell, son & daughter were over the day she came home from the surgery. She said they prepared dinner for her. I haven't seen the daughter since nor the son's vehicle, except when he picks up the kids. I guess, Grandma's lawn is Someone Else's Problem.

I'm sympathetic, or at least, understanding towards the daughter. She is in a serious health predicament. Sympathetic towards the son, also. After all, he's trying to care for 2 small children and hold down a job. Certainly, he requires the benefit of the doubt. The grandmother, I'm hoping that she doesn't encourage another generation of people who gamble on lightening strikes but she requires my sympathy as she attempts to regain her capabilities. Those farmers and the insurance/finance guys - nope.

Steve
who has, at similar times, decided not to click the "Submit" button . . . let's see . . .
 

seedcorn

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Steve, I can't address your specific crop insurance complaint but I will try and give you some basics.

1) Depending upon the crop, there is a time you can plant and receive full benefits and after a certain date, it becomes pro-rated as yields are to become less due to the late planting date. If you plant before the date, parts of your crop insurance are voided. If you go county, you could have crop failure but if rest of county doesn't, you are out of luck. On the other hand, you can have a bumper crop, rest of county is well below average and you collect. Most of these dates are century old approved dates set by successful farmers and land grant Ag colleges.
2) Depending upon your type of insurance, you can insurance 80-90% of either county yields or your verified 5 year average on that field with that crop. The higher the %, the higher the premium.
3) Crop insurance is underwritten by federal government to sustain a cheap, dependable cash flow, crop.
4) Most people I know are lucky if over 10 years, they break even. Very few farm for crop insurance. Altho I know of a few instances where small farmers (I have to go throw up after typing that) that had ground given to them will. Other farmers have tried to get them kicked out (you have to make a good effort to produce a crop) but there is always an agent who will take their money. The farmers who do this switch crops every year with most years being some type of specialty crop that has little to no hope of making it. Plus they don't make a good effort but the adjusters somehow OK the claim...don't get me started...

Most government Ag programs are designed for one thing, let the farmer cash flow, so he doesn't default on his bank loans thus bankrupting the banks, thus bankrupting the USA. Do some prosper, YOU BET just like people prosper over welfare programs, free lunches at school, public schools (why should farmers pay 70% of school expenses when they don't have kids involved?), etc.

Problem as I see it, people have become "entitled".
 

nittygrittydirtdigger

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Wow, what an education I get from this site! It never occurred to me that someone would plant with the expectation that it would fail and be paid for by insurance money. (Reminds me of when I lived in Illinois along the Mississippi and people in the low areas would get flooded out every few years. Some TV newscaster would stick a mic in their face while the cameras rolled, and ask them, "What are you going to do now that your house is floating down the river?" And of course they'd look into the camera with a heartbroken look on their face and say, "This is our ho-o-o-m-e. We're gonna rebuild...again. Thank the Lord for insurance.")

As for the helicopters, they are out there again this morning. It's weird, and I'd never heard of it before I moved here, but it does make economic sense. From what has happened so far this year, I' say they're still way ahead of the game. At a rough guess, the choppers have spent around 20 hours on that one 80 acre orchard. I have no idea what it costs to have the choppers in the air, but even at a couple hundred an hour, that's not that much money compared to losing a whole crop. And it doesn't happen every year; 2 out of the 5 that we've been here.

As far as the decisions people make, don't get me started! I have family members who can't figure out how the hubby and I can 'afford' our house and land (it's only 2 & 1/2 acres). Here's a clue: We don't drink alcohol, smoke cigarettes or pot, drive a late-model car or eat fast food 5-6 nights a week. It's amazing how that frees up a bunch of money for a mortgage!
 

curly_kate

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seedcorn said:
Problem as I see it, people have become "entitled".
I think that about sums up the root cause of a lot of problems in this country at this time. And it's so frustrating that the abusers make EVERYONE from a particular group look bad. (I'm a teacher, and trust me, I have heard enough "lazy, entitled, overpaid teacher" stories, I want to scream!)
 

digitS'

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Hey, this is educational, Kate!

And insurance schemes -- I was never involved with crop insurance. Since I worked for farmers who wouldn't have gained any subsidized insurance for their livestock, hay and grass seed - back in the Stone Age - couldn't have been involved in any decision-making or schemes. I'd gone on to flower production after reaching puberty . . . some profit potential in that, if you know what I mean ;).

Of course, with flowers - there were the foreign & domestic engineering schemes. Developing a Colombian floral industry in an attempt to get them to grow just anything other than coca & pot and welcoming Israeli flowers shooting in from the other end of the Mediterranean . . . well, that did quite a bit of damage to the future of US greenhouses. Off the farm, away from the greenhouse - plunked down on a small lot.

Well, I've got a good day to cool my head. It won't reach 50 today. Think I'll rub two sticks together and see what I can do about squeezing a heat unit out of the day. Wait! There's a UPS truck making a delivery across the road! Maybe if I pressed my nose against the front window I'd be able to read the return address on the shipping label . . .

Steve
 

seedcorn

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curly_kate said:
seedcorn said:
Problem as I see it, people have become "entitled".
I think that about sums up the root cause of a lot of problems in this country at this time. And it's so frustrating that the abusers make EVERYONE from a particular group look bad. (I'm a teacher, and trust me, I have heard enough "lazy, entitled, overpaid teacher" stories, I want to scream!)
Teachers and overpaid should never go in the same sentence. My daughter (when she graduates) will make about 2X what my school teacher son makes. Without good teachers, stupidity will reign supreme.

As far as helicopters on orchards (or other things in Ag) sometimes it's not about making money but the fear of loss where your costs are so great you can not afford a crop failure.
 

Stubbornhillfarm

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Making poor decisions and having bad ethics and values are very different in my book. Just say'n....

As far as you mowing the neighbors lawn. I say thank you for doing that for her. It just might be that she really appreciates you doing it and the fact that you do it correclty, and she may think that if her daughter or son took over the job you might be "offended". I know that sounds strange, but people sometimes have a twisted perception. (not that this is a news flash to anyone!) :D
 

vfem

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seedcorn said:
Steve, I can't address your specific crop insurance complaint but I will try and give you some basics.

1) Depending upon the crop, there is a time you can plant and receive full benefits and after a certain date, it becomes pro-rated as yields are to become less due to the late planting date. If you plant before the date, parts of your crop insurance are voided. If you go county, you could have crop failure but if rest of county doesn't, you are out of luck. On the other hand, you can have a bumper crop, rest of county is well below average and you collect. Most of these dates are century old approved dates set by successful farmers and land grant Ag colleges.
2) Depending upon your type of insurance, you can insurance 80-90% of either county yields or your verified 5 year average on that field with that crop. The higher the %, the higher the premium.
3) Crop insurance is underwritten by federal government to sustain a cheap, dependable cash flow, crop.
4) Most people I know are lucky if over 10 years, they break even. Very few farm for crop insurance. Altho I know of a few instances where small farmers (I have to go throw up after typing that) that had ground given to them will. Other farmers have tried to get them kicked out (you have to make a good effort to produce a crop) but there is always an agent who will take their money. The farmers who do this switch crops every year with most years being some type of specialty crop that has little to no hope of making it. Plus they don't make a good effort but the adjusters somehow OK the claim...don't get me started...

Most government Ag programs are designed for one thing, let the farmer cash flow, so he doesn't default on his bank loans thus bankrupting the banks, thus bankrupting the USA. Do some prosper, YOU BET just like people prosper over welfare programs, free lunches at school, public schools (why should farmers pay 70% of school expenses when they don't have kids involved?), etc.

Problem as I see it, people have become "entitled".
Funny, that seems like the plan the USA went ahead and reused to try to fix the bank issue! They just moved the model over from Ag to Finance. Not a smooth transaction on the gov's part.

But I see how this works. I'm assuming more then 75% of the time it is actually used for a true bad result? Or is this something that actually worked a lot 50 years ago, and now its just an old plan with little good to come of it?
 

digitS'

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Partly, this was the Butz' plan for Ag, as best as I understand.

Earl Butz was Nixon's secretary of agriculture and his idea was that farmers should go big or get out of farming. Seems he was fairly successful at that part of it.

Have you ever wondered why it is just the so-called "commodity crops," those traded in the finance markets, that get so much price support from the system? Fresh produce is nearly completely left out. Butz was behind all that. The entire "paper going one way, paper going the other way" sort of thing for food . . . seems to have worked out well for a select few. Some of the few were farmers.

Steve
 

seedcorn

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Crop insurance for the most part is a guaranteed losing proposition for most. What it does is allow leveraged farmers to sustain during rough years. It is insurance where the companies run the numbers and know the risks/rewards and make the rules to make them profitable. The reason you hear about the years where crop insurance pays is because it is news.

Steve, fresh produce is handled much more by supply and demand and guaranteed contracts by the middle men. When you put out an acre of green beans, you are guaranteed a certain amount of money so you costs/profits are covered. At least in Indiana, the farmer knows the least he will make before he puts out the first plant. Plus the company he is working with will scout his fields and make him do whatever is best for the crop--not necessarily the ground but the crop.
 

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