The Cost of Education

[seedcorn]

Fast forward to 1960. The United Federation of Teachers of New York City stage a one day strike resulting in a collective bargaining agreement. This sets off a rush to join the AFT (American Federation of Teachers) and similar local organizations. The result is that there are over 300 strikes by teacher's unions over the next 10 years.

High esteem? In the 60's when I went,

You only prove my point. When teachers started behaving like workmen instead of people with a noble calling they were no longer respected.

How do you explain away the 30-50's? My dad's teacher got beat up for disciplining a student in school. They didn't make enough to live so they had to stay with different families and eat whatever was being served, etc. Again, if this is respect, beat me. AFT only asked for fair wages at that time, not an unreasonable thing. The current teacher's union is a joke except that it will help support you when darling Johny's parents decide to sue you.

You are no doubt a caring individual who raises his children well but get involved with the teachers/schools see life from their side of the bubble.

 

[vfem]

I'm just going to lay this out there. When I think of the public school system I get sweaty and fearful of what it CAN become. We just keep ADDING and ADDING and trying to squeak everyone through on a budget. "No Child Left Behind", Year Round, ect.

The worst system I have ever seen belongs to the county I just moved OUT of! I was full of fear my daughter would be trapped along with the 100000's of others. I watch the terror in my friends eyes as they try to explain how their kids ended up in this school or that school and how different it can be for all their kids. Just imagine.... You son Billy goes to 3rd grade at the school down the street, but you have to drive Jane who's in 1st grade to a school clear across town. Billy is a year round school and he's on a 'track', lets say track 4. This track has him in class for 6 weeks at a time, then he's on a 3 week break. There is no 'summer' break. Jane is a traditional school... or maybe its a magnet school... or perhaps her school is part of one of the 'diversity' schools. There is a 50% chance she'll get bussed over to her school, but if not you are responsible for driving her.

Why not request they go to the same school? You can, but the paperwork to file is long and often unnoticed or denied for whatever reason.

Now the kids move on to the new year, and you finally got used to the schedule... but oh no, what's this? Billy is now in 4th grade and it go crowded because some schools end at 3rd grade and they've moved those kids over into his 4th grade class making it even BIGGER! Well, to easy the over crowding of students we have this great track out program. So now Billy moves into track 2. Which means he has 1 week between tracking out of grade 3 and then moving into track 2 and starting 4th grade now without much of a break.

If you're head is spinning trying to keep up with all that... just image having 3-4 kids in this system as a time?!

If you think I'm crazy... and I know you do... here's a link that covers the way the system is set up:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wake_County_Public_School_System

They are pushing to build more magnet schools, which I do like... but I think they may end up converting a huge majority of schools that way because of how well those students have been doing. Even I think that system can do wonderful things for a child's mind and aspirations in life. The above system just makes my head spin.

 

[OldGuy43]

How do you explain away the 30-50's? My dad's teacher got beat up for disciplining a student in school. They didn't make enough to live so they had to stay with different families and eat whatever was being served, etc. Again, if this is respect, beat me. AFT only asked for fair wages at that time, not an unreasonable thing. The current teacher's union is a joke except that it will help support you when darling Johny's parents decide to sue you.

Seedcorn, you are reading things into my post that simply aren't there. When have I said that I thought teachers are under or overpaid? The truly good ones are woefully under compensated. The bad ones shouldn't even have the job, and some are paid about what they are worth.

Your dad's teacher was beaten for "disciplining" a student? I refuse to pass judgement without all the facts. As I said, I knew several who were so sadistic and/or spiteful that they shouldn't have been allowed near children, let alone trusted to teach them.

Those who enter the teaching profession know that it is an underpaid profession. I can only think of two reasons for entering and staying in such a job. The first is that one wants to mold young minds. The second reason is far less noble.

 

[Carol Dee]

Get this our 6th graders need a 2GB flash drive!!!!
I graduated in a class of 400 only ONE drop out!

 

[OldGuy43]

Get this our 6th graders need a 2GB flash drive!!!!
I graduated in a class of 400 only ONE drop out!

If I was really careful I could probably get 2GB of data into a Big Chief Tablet.

 

[seedcorn]

The big lie they tell you is that if you pay more money you get better teachers.What you get are greedier teachers that will want even more when the next budget rolls around. We need teachers that love teaching, not those who love money.

Thank you HooDat! My sentiments exactly. What ever happened to the teachers of our youth who taught for the love of teaching? They wanted to mold young minds and set them on a path to success, not "get paid as if they were in private industry".

plus

Or of course, they could go to work in that "private industry" that they are sure pays so well. (By the way, I just saw where 46% of college grads will not find a job in their field.) Of course they'll have to give up tenure, yearly 3 month vacations and prove that they can do the job every day, and not have a union because they'll be salaried but hey; that's why it pays better.

I get it, everyone is tired of the system. Some bad teachers, some great teachers but put the blame where it belongs:
1: parents, parents, parents
2: administators which includes school heirarchy and school boards.
3: people who advice the politicians on how to fix the system economically by building new buildings, sports arena's, and changing to new unproven systems of teaching.

Vfem, sorry you are having that problem because I would be in super's office until he put all my kids in the same school. If I had to, I'd stay with him 24/7 until he would give in. Or police would haul me out for peaceful civil disobedience--I did learn something from the 70's in college. This works as when my mom was in hospital, I would follow the medical staff from room to room until they would finally give my mom the pain meds she needed, but that's another story......

Carol, I understand the flash drive. Cursive is long past, the ability to type, use computers is the future. Even us old stupid ag workers have to be computer literate. Imagine teaching computer ed to a 80 year old farmer.......

 

[peteyfoozer]

I guess I will join in the fray here.
I think 12+ years is too long for any kid to be in school.
I also hate that kids spend more time with strangers than with their own family.
Public education might do a lot to help them learn some things, but there are a heck of a lot of things they shouldn't be exposed to that are mandated there.
Relinquishing kids to public education means you run the risk of them embracing values that may be totally antithetical to your own, depending on the teachers.
I understand some parents just can't homeschool. Sadly my son and his wife are in that category, as they both have to work in order to survive.

I personally only made it to 9th grade and had to quit to find a place to live and work so I could eat, because luckily for me, the foster care system back then wasn't very active and I didn't become a ward of the nanny state. I learned a lot more and a lot faster after leaving school than I ever did attending...in fact, I went at the age of 38 and nailed my GED without even studying, just took the tests, which makes me think, if I could pass tests on high school cirriculum
without having ever been to high school, kids probably aren't learning a lot there that will be useful to them in the future. I had my own business and got my GED so I could say i graduated before my son did.

My boys went to public schools, which I protested, but their father insisted on it. I think it was a mistake on my part. BTW, neither of them can spell. We used to read together all the time, until my oldest was in 2nd grade and an incident with a teacher caused him to sull up and he never did get interested in reading again. Before they started school we were having a great time learning things, and I loved teaching them, but they lost their enthusiasm, as the classroom setting was not at all fun for them. That might be genetic, as it seemed to suck the life out of me too.

I have 2 sisters with Masters degrees. My brother, who barely made it out of HS makes a heck of a lot more money, running his own business, using his good common sense and skills. Of course one of my sisters is a high school teacher. Kids love her.

My grandfather was uneducated by today's standards and did the same. He died a millionaire.
I don't think school is the great answer everyone thinks it is. There is a certain level of learning we all need, but the most important thing we can learn is HOW to learn, and use critical thinking. I don't see those being prioritized, or even welcome, in most of today's public schools. Kids are just supposed to barf back the answers given to them and their minds atrophy.

That's not to say there are not some excellent teachers out there who make a positive impact on their students. I just feel, for the most part, public school is more of a necessary evil than a privilege.

I think there need to be more choices for parents. The same platform doesn't benefit every child. Their needs differ as much as their personalities and learning needs to be tailored to their needs, not the agenda of the gov't.

Here's a nickel, I need 3 cents change.
BTW, I figured that without a calculator.

 

[thistlebloom]

Thanks Petey, you have articulated much of what I wasn't able to.

 

[cityfarmer]

Okay here it goes...

I am a public education teacher. In fact, am a special education teacher. I love my job and I am very proud of what I do. I still believe that teaching is a noble profession. I believe in our public education system. Are teachers automatically respected anymore just because they are teachers? No, but I am not sure policemen or firemen are automatically respected anymore just on the basis of their profession. I guess I might be in a minority that I believe respect is earned and not given based upon a job title. I have worked with many teachers that are good teachers on their way to becoming great teachers and I have worked with teachers that should not be in the teaching profession. However, I believe every profession has people who belong in that profession and those who would be better off doing something else. Do I think supply lists have grown out of control? Yes. Do I have a solution for this? No. I have very mixed feelings about parents being required to bring in supplies for the class so the class can share the supplies. However, kids will share the supplies regardless if their name is on it or not. As a special education teacher, I buy all the supplies for my room. I am not complaining about this, I do it because I want to. I am glad parents have the choices they have now including public school, home school, private school, charter school, and on-line school. Parents need to do what they feel is best for their children. I get very uncomfortable when I hear people bad mouthing parents, teachers, administrators, and politicians as a whole. There have been poor parents since the dawn of time. Every school district has poor teachers and administrators and every state has poor politicians. However, the majority of parents are doing the best they can given their unique set of circumstances. The majority of teachers and administrators are doing the best they can given the situations they are given (and most would love to do better). Politicians are a different beast. They are supposed to be there for their voters but they have to worry about their political party wishes. The good ones are there just for their voters. I will always be an advocate for public education even with all its bumps, bruises, and warts.

Now that I have just probably gotten myself kicked out of the forum, I bid you all good night.

 

[thistlebloom]

Very well spoken City farmer. I don't agree with all points but you were very clear. Why in the world would you think expressing your opinion so politely would get you kicked off? And thanks for doing your job so conscientiously, you are obviously one of the good ones, as well as the other teachers on TEG who have voiced their opinions on this thread.