- Thread starter
- #341
Others who have done it this way have had them up for years. Some even skim coat the inside and fill it up, no liner.
Do you have personal experience with these failures or something?
The Pond Thread
- Thread starter secuono
- Start date
Others who have done it this way have had them up for years. Some even skim coat the inside and fill it up, no liner.
Do you have personal experience with these failures or something?
flowerbug
Garden Master
plenty of construction experience to know that brick walls aren't the best thing to use for side to side forces.
- Thread starter
- #343
- Thread starter
- #344
- Thread starter
- #345
I think we've decided to do blocks in the end. We'll do 3 blocks high, which equals 2ft of height, using the larger 12×8×16in blocks. Order a larger liner & fold n tuck excess under the top edge stone. The larger blocks will be more sturdy. If we later decide to raise it further, we can unroll the excess liner, drill holes to continue rebar & build up another layer or two of blocks.
The point of the above ground portion is to not be down on the ground, in between the plants to see the fish. We liked being able to view the shop's koi while standing or leaning over. They felt like they were more in our lives by being up close to us, if that makes sense.
I'm going to make it a bit more narrow at 15ft instead of 20ft, dig to 5ft in the ground instead of 4ft & keep the 25ft long. From 9,300gal down to 7,000gal worth of pressure above ground. That's at the 3ft height. Here's the 2ft height differences; 4,600gal at 15ft wide vs 6,200gal at 20ft wide.
The point of the above ground portion is to not be down on the ground, in between the plants to see the fish. We liked being able to view the shop's koi while standing or leaning over. They felt like they were more in our lives by being up close to us, if that makes sense.
I'm going to make it a bit more narrow at 15ft instead of 20ft, dig to 5ft in the ground instead of 4ft & keep the 25ft long. From 9,300gal down to 7,000gal worth of pressure above ground. That's at the 3ft height. Here's the 2ft height differences; 4,600gal at 15ft wide vs 6,200gal at 20ft wide.
flowerbug
Garden Master
i'm not trying to be picky or contrary here, but i am trying to give you honest opinions and to explain why to prevent you from spending a lot of $ and then have it not work out well.
poured concrete strong enough to resist freeze thaw cycles is going to be a heck of a lot more $ than a simple liner in a dug out area. note that the frost depth used in construction for footings is for unexposed depths and not open like what you are talking about having. that's really not something i even have enough experience with to think it a good idea.
i wish i could say otherwise, but blocks above grade for this purpose are just not going to last if you get any kind of freeze thaw expansion of the water up against them.
IMO you'd have to drain the pond to below the blocks at the end of the season to where it is just liner and ground forces to avoid damage. i'm pretty sure you don't want the expense of keeping it heated. i do know that people have bubblers and circulating windmill or solar type things to keep the water moving to prevent it from freezing but if those fail or you get a cold enough snap to freeze then...
i don't really know enough about your winter climate there to wonder if it would work well, but i do hear about snow and cold down that far so i am always leery about what happens when the weather changes. it is so much easier when you have one kind of weather to contend with instead of the changes the seasons bring.
good luck, i do hope it works out.
poured concrete strong enough to resist freeze thaw cycles is going to be a heck of a lot more $ than a simple liner in a dug out area. note that the frost depth used in construction for footings is for unexposed depths and not open like what you are talking about having. that's really not something i even have enough experience with to think it a good idea.
i wish i could say otherwise, but blocks above grade for this purpose are just not going to last if you get any kind of freeze thaw expansion of the water up against them.
IMO you'd have to drain the pond to below the blocks at the end of the season to where it is just liner and ground forces to avoid damage. i'm pretty sure you don't want the expense of keeping it heated. i do know that people have bubblers and circulating windmill or solar type things to keep the water moving to prevent it from freezing but if those fail or you get a cold enough snap to freeze then...
i don't really know enough about your winter climate there to wonder if it would work well, but i do hear about snow and cold down that far so i am always leery about what happens when the weather changes. it is so much easier when you have one kind of weather to contend with instead of the changes the seasons bring.
good luck, i do hope it works out.
- Thread starter
- #348
i'm not trying to be picky or contrary here, but i am trying to give you honest opinions and to explain why to prevent you from spending a lot of $ and then have it not work out well.
poured concrete strong enough to resist freeze thaw cycles is going to be a heck of a lot more $ than a simple liner in a dug out area. note that the frost depth used in construction for footings is for unexposed depths and not open like what you are talking about having. that's really not something i even have enough experience with to think it a good idea.
i wish i could say otherwise, but blocks above grade for this purpose are just not going to last if you get any kind of freeze thaw expansion of the water up against them.
IMO you'd have to drain the pond to below the blocks at the end of the season to where it is just liner and ground forces to avoid damage. i'm pretty sure you don't want the expense of keeping it heated. i do know that people have bubblers and circulating windmill or solar type things to keep the water moving to prevent it from freezing but if those fail or you get a cold enough snap to freeze then...
i don't really know enough about your winter climate there to wonder if it would work well, but i do hear about snow and cold down that far so i am always leery about what happens when the weather changes. it is so much easier when you have one kind of weather to contend with instead of the changes the seasons bring.
good luck, i do hope it works out.
I apologize ahead of time if this comes out sounding rude, don't mean it to.
I think you're forgetting that deep ponds are warmer & more stable than the surface or above grade. Having a deep hole in ground will act like a heat sink. And the filters running will help even out the water temps.
I plan on building a wooden pergola over the pond. Solid roof, window screen walls & a door. I'll be able to add film for winter or even use stronger panels. Think of the extra winterizing glass panels or storm panels people add to windows in some areas. I won't heat it like a greenhouse, though. This will further help limit temp swings and just how cold it gets.
I'd be doing it to keep herons out, not needing shade cloth & to enjoy the pond without mosquitoes & zillions of toads & land frogs.
flowerbug
Garden Master
no, that didn't come out as rude, i just hope you never get a hard freeze and the pumps going out like during a heavy snow storm.
i do recall the herons being a PITA so i understand wanting more protection.
i do recall the herons being a PITA so i understand wanting more protection.
- Thread starter
- #350
