baymule
Garden Master
@Carol Dee do you remember about how many plants you had? That is a gorgeous tomato picture!
Thinking About Tomatoes Already
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w_r_ranch
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I will attempt to explain why I feel as I do & my reasons. This post is not intended to offend anyone or change their beliefs, so please don't take it as such... I'm only using Cat's post because she stated what some others probably believe.
I understand that Cat. I also believe that in gardening, there is no 'magic' panaceas... just as there is no one 'correct' way to do things. Gardening is all about trial and error. It's about celebrating our successes, learning from our mistakes and enjoying the process...
Having said that, I understand & practice many organic farming methods myself such as amending the soil with organic material to build structure, mulching to suppress weeds & using copper/sulfur as fungicides. However, I also have come to understand that a vast majority of information on commercial organic products is just plain marketing hype & each product has to be evaluated on it's own merits. For instance, the never ending 'organic v. chemical fertilizer' debate... Chemistry is chemistry & truth be told, plants/microbes can't tell the difference between a naturally derived fertilizer & one that was produced synthetically in a lab. To a plant's roots, a nitrogen molecule is simply a nitrogen molecule. I could go on, but like I said, "Life is too short"...
But before I move on though, I would also like to add: GMO seeds are not available to the home gardener, only very large farms that can do the regulatory paperwork. Seed companies that advertise 'non-GMO seed pledges' are just stating the obvious & pandering to the gullible seed buying public. Any seed vendors that make these kind of pledges might as well include a promise not to sell us Moon rocks as well, LOL!!!
I agree, Monsanto has done a lot of good over the years... whether its programs that have supported food banks or scholarships or Future Farmers of America, they have always been involved in the communities of which they are a part and give back. They are often mischaracterized by the folks who oppose GMO's who really have no clue about Monsanto except what they hear from others (this is what I was referring to).
As far as associating Monsanto (or any other ag-chemical company) doing "a lot of toxic things", contemplate this: Most of the herbicides/pesticides that we use nowadays are much safer than the ones used previously. For example 'RoundUp' (glyphosate) is much safer than 2-4d & arsnic (which I believe we can all agree is pretty bad & very persistent). The simple fact is that RoundUp contains glycine, which is a natural amino acid & a component of every protein in our bodies, as well as phosphates, which is a plant nutrient. No harmful residues are left & seeds can be planted minutes after spraying. These glycophosphate herbicides are the basis for no-tillage farming (an 'organic' practice), which is the way that much corn is raised today as well as many other crops... yet the anti-Monsanto/organic crowd still attacks it.
The questions we should be asking ourselves is WHY & HOW some people can become so engrossed in an 'Ideology/cause' that is disconnected from science-based reality. Follow the money.
How much do you suppose it would cost for "Contains No GMOs" statement to be added to labels? Consider all the associated costs of implementing such labeling to include the regulatory process of ensuring that the label is truthful (we all KNOW that any bureaucracy involved in regulating any industry grows exponentially) ...
To ensure that there is no 'cross-contamination' would require duplicating the entire food processing system. Separate & isolated farmland, separate tractors/seed drills for planting & harvest, separate trucks/trailers/train cars for transportation of product, separate canning/freezing facilities, separate distribution warehouses for storage, etc. Who is going to pay for it??? I don't see any of the 'pro-labeling' folks ponying up to the bar to pay for these costs... Do you believe it is fair to expect that 150M families should bear the additional costs to satisfy the whims of maybe 1M individuals??? I don't.
There are other considerations as well. This is a link to an article about a report casting doubt on GMO labeling. I don't expect it will change anyone's opinion, but to be fair, you ought to read it.
“The Potential Impacts of Mandatory Labeling for Genetically Engineered Food in the United States”
In closing, I grow what I grow & will continue to use science/technology to put good, nutritious food on our table. I feed my family & heavily supplement 5 other families as well, so being productive & cost/time efficient is of paramount importance to me. I see no reason to avoid any company that helps me attain that goal. With that said, I will get off my soapbox...
I understand that Cat. I also believe that in gardening, there is no 'magic' panaceas... just as there is no one 'correct' way to do things. Gardening is all about trial and error. It's about celebrating our successes, learning from our mistakes and enjoying the process...
Having said that, I understand & practice many organic farming methods myself such as amending the soil with organic material to build structure, mulching to suppress weeds & using copper/sulfur as fungicides. However, I also have come to understand that a vast majority of information on commercial organic products is just plain marketing hype & each product has to be evaluated on it's own merits. For instance, the never ending 'organic v. chemical fertilizer' debate... Chemistry is chemistry & truth be told, plants/microbes can't tell the difference between a naturally derived fertilizer & one that was produced synthetically in a lab. To a plant's roots, a nitrogen molecule is simply a nitrogen molecule. I could go on, but like I said, "Life is too short"...
But before I move on though, I would also like to add: GMO seeds are not available to the home gardener, only very large farms that can do the regulatory paperwork. Seed companies that advertise 'non-GMO seed pledges' are just stating the obvious & pandering to the gullible seed buying public. Any seed vendors that make these kind of pledges might as well include a promise not to sell us Moon rocks as well, LOL!!!
I agree, Monsanto has done a lot of good over the years... whether its programs that have supported food banks or scholarships or Future Farmers of America, they have always been involved in the communities of which they are a part and give back. They are often mischaracterized by the folks who oppose GMO's who really have no clue about Monsanto except what they hear from others (this is what I was referring to).
As far as associating Monsanto (or any other ag-chemical company) doing "a lot of toxic things", contemplate this: Most of the herbicides/pesticides that we use nowadays are much safer than the ones used previously. For example 'RoundUp' (glyphosate) is much safer than 2-4d & arsnic (which I believe we can all agree is pretty bad & very persistent). The simple fact is that RoundUp contains glycine, which is a natural amino acid & a component of every protein in our bodies, as well as phosphates, which is a plant nutrient. No harmful residues are left & seeds can be planted minutes after spraying. These glycophosphate herbicides are the basis for no-tillage farming (an 'organic' practice), which is the way that much corn is raised today as well as many other crops... yet the anti-Monsanto/organic crowd still attacks it.
The questions we should be asking ourselves is WHY & HOW some people can become so engrossed in an 'Ideology/cause' that is disconnected from science-based reality. Follow the money.
How much do you suppose it would cost for "Contains No GMOs" statement to be added to labels? Consider all the associated costs of implementing such labeling to include the regulatory process of ensuring that the label is truthful (we all KNOW that any bureaucracy involved in regulating any industry grows exponentially) ...
To ensure that there is no 'cross-contamination' would require duplicating the entire food processing system. Separate & isolated farmland, separate tractors/seed drills for planting & harvest, separate trucks/trailers/train cars for transportation of product, separate canning/freezing facilities, separate distribution warehouses for storage, etc. Who is going to pay for it??? I don't see any of the 'pro-labeling' folks ponying up to the bar to pay for these costs... Do you believe it is fair to expect that 150M families should bear the additional costs to satisfy the whims of maybe 1M individuals??? I don't.
There are other considerations as well. This is a link to an article about a report casting doubt on GMO labeling. I don't expect it will change anyone's opinion, but to be fair, you ought to read it.
“The Potential Impacts of Mandatory Labeling for Genetically Engineered Food in the United States”
In closing, I grow what I grow & will continue to use science/technology to put good, nutritious food on our table. I feed my family & heavily supplement 5 other families as well, so being productive & cost/time efficient is of paramount importance to me. I see no reason to avoid any company that helps me attain that goal. With that said, I will get off my soapbox...
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Carol Dee
Garden Master
@baymule DH planted TOO MANY! 8 of each I think! 3 kinds, Brandywine, Mortgage Lifter and German Johnson. I HAVE to convince him to plant fewer and father apart. They became a dense flopped over tangle hard to harvest. Harbored pests too.
Here are the cherry tomatoes,
Big tomatoes looked far worse than this photo shows.
Here is a Mortgage Lifter in a cereal bowl.
Big tomatoes looked far worse than this photo shows.
Here is a Mortgage Lifter in a cereal bowl.
bobm
Garden Master
WR .. I agree with your statements. I wish that folks would go to Indianapolis and tour the Dow Agro Sciences facilities , as well as their field research stations. I have been through their facilities several times including private tours not available to the general public. That would be a real eye opener of what really is being studied in research and development through chemistry with the aid of HUGE computers as well as years of strict Government rules and regulations to follow before any product ever reaches our farms, gardens, homes, and back yards. People should do their own investigations instead of following the banter of those that have an axe to grind for Corporations especially the Agricultural Corporations as most of what they preach is just not so. If one thinks that man made products are somehow bad ... well Mother Nature has made the mold of it at some point in time since the "Big Bang". 
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so lucky
Garden Master
You know, you guys have your opinions and your way of perceiving things, and other people have theirs. You are not going to change my mind and I am not going to change yours. Let's not come to verbal blows, or do anything to destroy the peace and fun we have here.
Smart Red
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That's why there are so many different varieties of tomatoes. So everyone can find their perfect fit.
baymule
Garden Master
I am not going to hijack your thread.
I am not going to hijack your thread.
I am not going to hijack your thread.
I am not going to hijack your thread.
BACK TO THE REGULALRLY SCHEDULED TOMATO THREAD
baymule
Garden Master
@Carol Dee I think it is @Ridgerunner that uses cow panels he cut in half, to make them manageable to move by himself, to support his tomatoes. He puts two up and plants the tomatoes in between them. The holes are big enough to easily reach your hands in to pick tomatoes. I like his idea and will try it myself real soon!
My tomatoes have been planted in cages....read that as epic failure....and T-posts driven next to the cages, laced together with lots and lots of hay twine. By the time I'm done tying it all together, the tomato patch looks like a giant spider spitting large diameter yellow silk out her butt has attacked my garden. What a mess.
@Ridgerunner do you have any pictures of your cow panel tomatoes? (assuming that my feeble memory is correct) I hate assume--it makes a donkey out of (not you) and me and me again
My tomatoes have been planted in cages....read that as epic failure....and T-posts driven next to the cages, laced together with lots and lots of hay twine. By the time I'm done tying it all together, the tomato patch looks like a giant spider spitting large diameter yellow silk out her butt has attacked my garden. What a mess.
@Ridgerunner do you have any pictures of your cow panel tomatoes? (assuming that my feeble memory is correct) I hate assume--it makes a donkey out of (not you) and me and me again
AMKuska
Garden Master
Agreed. We are all very different people here on TEG, but we always manage to overcome our differences and garden anyway!
digitS'
Garden Master
Ridgerunner is indeed the gardener who grows between the grids ...
But, speaking of donkeys ... farmers have long recognized the value of hybrids. My grandfather farmed with mules.
Some folks don't want to have anything to do with hybrids. There may be multiple reasons just as there are many ways to think about, and appreciate or not, all sorts of things. It may go beyond a matter of taste but that, at least, is a part of it.
Personally, I'd like to have my own hybrids. I like the idea of what Keith Mueller has done by crossing those two heirlooms. Marshall may think he has "dehybridized" that yellow tomato and General Mischief is the result. But, that's an F4, or F5, or something. Some of that hybrid vigor near-magic is still coming through.
Diversity is strength, @Hal says.
Cane' had that poster of Gardening as an Act of Defiance. Defying the weeds but, I just bet, about half or more of gardeners are out there because they want choices outside of what is available to them within the food industry.
I like tomatoes.
Steve
But, speaking of donkeys ... farmers have long recognized the value of hybrids. My grandfather farmed with mules.
Some folks don't want to have anything to do with hybrids. There may be multiple reasons just as there are many ways to think about, and appreciate or not, all sorts of things. It may go beyond a matter of taste but that, at least, is a part of it.
Personally, I'd like to have my own hybrids. I like the idea of what Keith Mueller has done by crossing those two heirlooms. Marshall may think he has "dehybridized" that yellow tomato and General Mischief is the result. But, that's an F4, or F5, or something. Some of that hybrid vigor near-magic is still coming through.
Diversity is strength, @Hal says.
Cane' had that poster of Gardening as an Act of Defiance. Defying the weeds but, I just bet, about half or more of gardeners are out there because they want choices outside of what is available to them within the food industry.
I like tomatoes.
Steve
