What's With The Bad Manners?

[Beekissed]

I missed that part about the electric not being an option. The other option, which I exercise here when necessary is to just disappear the dog. They get one chance if they can be caught and contained until the owners pick them up and the owners get an explanation that I have chickens and they free range here. If I see the dog again, he's gone for good. Not at the shelter or rehomed, just....gone.

No explanation given to the owner if they come looking, just a "Yeah, I saw him around here earlier today but I haven't seen him all afternoon...I'll let ya know if I see him around again." That's it.

All neighbors that have dogs around here are more than a mile away and I'm the only person back here with chickens, so if they have come back this far in the woods, it's for one thing and one thing only. The last one we disappeared had traveled 5 miles our direction and a mile back from the hard road to get to the chickens and they were given the traditional warning. Second time he just disappeared.

It's a shame, but I've done all the traditional routes of being neighborly, patient, kind, asking for help from the police(who told me to just shoot it), trying to save the dog because the owner is a putz, etc. Just tired of losing livestock and never feeling safe about them, so I'm more hardcore now. I keep my dog at home and if a dog of mine were to somehow slip past my guard, get off my land and get shot, that's expected. No whining, no wishing, just acceptance.

That's just how it is out here in the backwoods.

 

[Jared77]

@Beekissed same rules apply to chickens that get off your property?

Say one somehow got outside the net or another critter of your escaped and was off your land is it ok that your livestock "just disappeared"? Be it a horse or goat or whatever else you keep.

 

[Lavender2]

Sad when people don't care enough about their pets to keep them safe. I have restrained and returned a few of them, but it can be a hazardous situation to get into especially if you don't know the dog.

Our law doesn't hold back the punches when it comes to controlling nuisance dogs on the farm ...

347.03. Dogs may be killed
Any owner or caretaker may kill any dog found chasing, injuring, or worrying sheep or other livestock or poultry owned by or in care of such owner or caretaker, on lands or premises owned or controlled by the owner or caretaker, and any owner or caretaker of sheep may kill any dog found on the owner's or caretaker's premises where sheep are kept, not under human restraint or control.

 

[ducks4you]

We have many neighbors bc we keep 3 horses, 6 chickens, two dogs and are down to one cat, lost 6 in 2013 from coywolves. We lost one cat from a neighbor's dogs who was getting loose. We found her front legs strewn in the back yard, and all of the others disappeared, no trace. She was 12yo and lived in the barn and visited us in the house. Even though it was the dog's fault, had I been up at 5am to let her in, as I had been doing, we would probably still have her. She was a very sweet and affectionate cat.
After this incident we have not seen hide nor hair of this dog. Still, DH had decided that he would shoot it in the back side with a beebee gun if the dog ever came on our property again, so that they would have a Vet bill and reminder to keep their dog home.
If you don't already own a camera, get yourself a Nikon COOLPIX. All photos I post here are taken with it. There are really easy to use and you just turn it on, look in the viewfinder which is 3/4 of the back of the camera and shoot. Loose dogs are a menace to people. The situation with the Jack Russell could have been fought with an attorney. DH has practiced for 40 years and my youngest DD was just hired in traffic as an Asst. State's Attorney. You don't have to settle for charges. It would burn me up to have somebody's little dog harrass me and my own, and then be told to euthanize my protecting dog, doing his job on my property. There would be very bad blood between me and the neighbor. Charges, quite simply, can be changed.
Regarding chickens, I won't free range mine. Please consider building a chicken tractor that will allow your birds to graze but protect them from predators. BYC has a lot of information about them.

 

[Beekissed]

@Beekissed same rules apply to chickens that get off your property?

Say one somehow got outside the net or another critter of your escaped and was off your land is it ok that your livestock "just disappeared"? Be it a horse or goat or whatever else you keep.

Yep. Of course! Now, a horse or goat is a big item and most folks will gladly call you to get you to come and get them....but a chicken scratching up their yard and landscaping? Or a dog digging through their trash or killing their livestock? Yep, they can disappear. Mostly, folks who get other large livestock on their land will call you to come and get them...if they get them there a second time, they will trailer them to the livestock auction and rightly so. It's not their problem when you can't manage your own animals and they shouldn't have to deal with it over and over.

Now, to put it in context, my chickens live a mile back from the hard road and half a mile from the neighbors on one side and a mile from the neighbors on the other side and there is about 10,000 acres of woodland behind us wherein no one lives. Around our 20 acres of land we are surrounded by heavy wooded land, so one cannot actually see or hear their neighbors. Now, if a chicken of mine should get that far as to get to a neighbor's home without getting eaten by wildlife and would even think to wander from the flock to go to the neighbor's house, then I would not expect him to return. Same with the dog.

I can sense that you are offended by the disappearing of the dogs and it's usually those whose toes have been stepped on who yelp the loudest, so if you see yourself in my post and are thinking your dog running loose at times will eventually disappear, then you might take stronger measures to insure he stays at home or at least adjust your expectations of his outcome as he wanders through the world.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Sad when people don't care enough about their pets to keep them safe. I have restrained and returned a few of them, but it can be a hazardous situation to get into especially if you don't know the dog.

Our law doesn't hold back the punches when it comes to controlling nuisance dogs on the farm ...

347.03. Dogs may be killed
Any owner or caretaker may kill any dog found chasing, injuring, or worrying sheep or other livestock or poultry owned by or in care of such owner or caretaker, on lands or premises owned or controlled by the owner or caretaker, and any owner or caretaker of sheep may kill any dog found on the owner's or caretaker's premises where sheep are kept, not under human restraint or control.

The big difference in Minnesota and Arkansas is the part about being able to kill a dog if sheep are kept. You can protect you and yours here, including your animals, pets or livestock. But you can't just shoot a dog that is on your property. That's because dogs can't read, not even something as simple as a no trespassing sign.

Imagine a coon dog chasing a raccoon up a tree on your property. It's not threatening you, your family, or your animals but it sure is threatening that raccoon. Should you be able to just go out and shoot it? In Minnesota you can if sheep are around but in Arkansas you can't.

A rural tradition is that outside dogs are working dogs. We've all heard of livestock guardian dogs, but mutts do much the same thing. They cannot do their job is they are locked up or tied up. I'm talking about a rural area and a lot of acres, not suburbia. Fencing the dogs in or the predators out is not feasible. Barbed wire does not stop a lot. Any of these working dogs that is threatening or harassing you, yours, or your animals can legally be killed, but they have to be threatening or harassing for it to be legal. Some people get really upset if you shoot their dog, even if it is legal and it is to protect your or yours, but the majority understand how it works. Several even offer to pay for the chickens their dog killed before you shot it.

I don't like shooting dogs. One of the reasons I got the electric netting was so I would not have to. But electric netting may not be the solution for everyone.

 

[journey11]

This is the code for WV... (source)

§ 19-20-16. Same--When lawful to kill dog

A person may kill a dog that he may see chasing, worrying, wounding or killing any sheep, lambs, goats, kids, calves, cattle, swine, show or breeding rabbits, horses, colts or poultry outside of the enclosure of the owner of the dog, unless the chasing or worrying be done by the direction of the owner of the sheep, lambs, goats, kids, calves, cattle, swine, show or breeding rabbits or horses and colts or poultry.

I take it they must be caught in the act, not just passing through. The leash laws are determined by county though. We have one in place here although many don't heed it. Inevitably, a dog may escape or get loose. While I have hauled several dogs to the pound, it was only after them repeatedly showing up in my yard. I'll take them back home if I can catch them. I expect the neighbor to make an effort to contain them and not make a habit of it. I've also had company leave the gate or the door to the house open and my dogs get out. It helps to get to know your neighbors ahead of time and they are more likely to call you or return your dog to you if they see it out. Sometimes, some dogs, you can't take the chance though. I could never have caught those German Shepherds safely.

Conversely, I've also had goats loose in my yard eating my trees and this went on for a couple of weeks until the neighbor gave up and sold them. And another neighbor's rooster that came down for awhile and we tolerated him until he made an attempt to flog. I called her about it and they promptly made him into soup the next day. We've had a neighbor's bull loose on my dad's farm before too. I was afraid of him, but dad took a stick and herded him back up the road. These things happen. It's good if you can keep communication open with your neighbors and try to work it out first. It might be a good idea for @so lucky to go ahead and speak to the neighbor about it, bearing in mind that he might be feeling slighted too by the chickens roaming. Maybe you can clear the air.

 

[Lavender2]

@Ridgerunner ... I don't think I could ever kill a dog, well maybe if it was attacking a child or being a real vicious threat and reasonably certain of attack. But I don't have animals to protect. Securing animals to safety the best you can is probably always better, you can't always be there with a loaded gun to protect them. As with many laws, just because you can doesn't mean you should.

I think the special protection continues for sheep because of the frequent use of guard dogs. Guard dogs are less effective against preying dogs than they are against fox, coyote and other wild animals. I know there was a big issue about this years ago, with the push to use more non-lethal means of protection for sheep herds, and the problem with packs of dogs. I don't remember all the details though.

 

[Beekissed]

I don't like shooting dogs either....I can't imagine anyone actually liking to shoot a dog, though I'm sure they are out there. It's nice if everyone can just keep their animals on their own land, though accidents happen and that's understood...I've had just such accidents happen with my own dog...and he was killed not 5 min. off my land~no whining here because this is how it is where I live.

Repeated returns of the same animal to my coop is no accident, though, and the intent is clear, nor am I going to wait until they actually chase and kill a bird before they are removed~either returned to owner or removed from the equation.

I've been down the road towards calling the authorities~they said they can't do anything and I should just kill it, talking with the neighbor, even went so far as buying the dog a collar and a tie out, driving him home and applying these things to him to keep him at his home. The next day he was back without his collar, had chewed a huge hole into my garage door to get to my dog....this after already digging into my rabbitry, killing two rabbits and destroying many cages. And this is just ONE story of such dogs...I have a few.

Think about it...if you saw a fox near your coop and you have all the normal predator proofing measures in place but there is still a chance that fox may get your birds, will you wait until he does and maybe miss the chance of eliminating that threat or will you take your chances that his drive by on your coop is not a threat to your flock and wait to remove him until you "catch him in the act"?

I have a dog that protects my flock from all other predators except other dogs...he's too friendly with those, so I have to cover that side of the predator threat. It doesn't happen often but eventually we get a stray dog through here and that's my part of my predator program...elimination of the dog threat.

 

[journey11]

I'm pretty sure lurking around your coop or circling your enclosure would count as "worrying" and being caught in the act. Chickens are just so darn tasty. It's unreasonable to think that any dog would have the willpower to leave them alone.