Your tax dollars at work

[897tgigvib]

Anyone ever try to get a Butternut or Pecan tree into California?

I have never seen either of these nut trees in California.

Ya know, I truly believe that the only way to get one here is by smuggling it in. Now, course I would not bring one in that looks diseased or has bugs on it. In fact, kind of like driving without insurance, I'd be super cautious to make sure no bugs or diseases were on my smuggled butternut or pecan tree. Add to that, I'd probably tell folks it was just a walnut tree!

I know, just a good observant eye can't spot hiding or latent diseases, and viruses, well, that'd take an electronic microscope and my electron microscope has a cracked seal on the chamber window... Luckily my pcr micro dna processor works fine, but shoot, that takes 1,700 watts for 10 hours, prolly worth the test.

All this big hooptado to make sure we don't get another medfly infestation is actually good stuff, but those THEYS OUT THERE WHO LIKE TO BE IN CHARGE OF WHERE I TIE MY SHOES just have a really hard time with the idea that a well inspected plant, (ok, costs 20 clams for the inspection, pay the fee), a well inspected plant is not going to be carrying a new andromeda strain of spider mites.

Well, the other thing about a foreign plant may be that it could pick up and carry a disease at the new location, and then become an incubator even if it is tolerant. Ya know, get a wild Acacia tree from Africa that is resistant and tolerant to Phytopthphora that is local, and then local spores get on and into it, grow and multiply in and on it, do no damage to that particular tree, but then that disease spreads from that one.

See? To be good stewards of this planet and to grow a widely diverse array of exotics...almost everything gardeners grow is exotic...takes good consideration.

Are those Peas you grow native to where you live or are they exotics from a foreign place? Even the Corn, it's from a location several thousand miles south of most of us.

Some of these things have proven to be alright to grow.. or have they?

A) fix the system

B) slap the THEYS IN CHARGE, then fix the system

=====

I prefer plan B

 

[canesisters]

B

 

[jackb]

Consider there is no way to tell an olive variety visually, it can be determined by DNA testing. He could have walked out with any tree and not known it. As I bonsai the trees, most of the tree was removed and the pieces thrown away, so any potential problem is long past prevention. I could have simply said it was dead on arrival. He took the tree, but the media it was growing in is still here. The seller has been selling for years, every day, thousands of sales, and he continues to sell prohibited items. Also, the tree had been in my greenhouse for several months, mixed in with a few dozen other olive varieties, and they are perfectly fine. The whole process, the way it is administered, is ridiculous. This is the same agency that allows Monsanto to get away with GMOs and said pink slime is fine to eat.

Jack B

 

[Jared77]

I get it both sides of this. I ordered some plants from S.E. Asia for my aquarium once. Months later I got a letter in the mail saying I couldn't import things to the U.S. I ordered it off a fish related site similar to Ebay. Had no idea the person was in Asia, or that it was illegal to do so.

Ridge is right that these things need to be stopped. They are harmful, and potentially dangerous. The lasting effects can be devastating.

HOWEVER........Steps should be in place so that it never gets into Jack's hands. That's where Jack's right on this.

I never got my plants all I got was a copy of the paypal statement showing what I ordered and a typed form letter saying how what I did was illegal and the plants were seized and destroyed.

There shouldn't be someone who drives down well after the fact and says "Oh by the way you can't have that". The damage is potentially already done. The American portion of EBay sales shouldn't allow those things to be available for sale, or listed to be sold. Same with Craigslist, Amazon etc. That's how the problem should be addressed. The USDA needs to attack it at the distribution source, rather than scrambling after the fact which I think was Jack's point originally.

It is a double standard and that's part of the problem. I'm not familiar with things, dues the USDA handle what the policies are or are they simply the enforcement portion of existing policies?

 

[jackb]

Two plants were ordered and were shipped bare root. The plants were over a month in transit and appeared dead when I received them; in fact one was dead. In the process of destroying them I tested the bark with my thumbnail and could see a slight green tinge beneath the bark on one tree so I stuck in in the ground rather than destroy it. I posted on the Ebay forum that it was a waste of time to order plants from overseas, as it took so long for the plants to arrive they would be dead when you received them. A day later I received a nasty-gram from Ebay, which said they were removing my post and if I continued to do that they would suspend my account.

I asked the man from the USDA why they did not go after Ebay and he said: "That is difficult, but we are working with them." Yeah, I guess they are, watching and recording sales, getting your personal information from Ebay and then traveling around literally closing the barn door after the horse has escaped the barn.

The form he left said the plant was being confiscated pursuant to the Noxious Weed Act.

Well, at least it keeps a lot of people employed.

Jack B

 

[so lucky]

Maybe when you are looking for something on ebay, you could check the "North America only" option on the left side of the page.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I posted on the Ebay forum that it was a waste of time to order plants from overseas, as it took so long for the plants to arrive they would be dead when you received them. A day later I received a nasty-gram from Ebay, which said they were removing my post and if I continued to do that they would suspend my account.

Thats a big part of why I dont really trust a lot of the recommendations I see on the internet. For a very short while a company was advertising for customers. They would help you manage your internet evaluations. I took it to mean they would edit the responses to make them sound good, even when they were not. That ad did not run long. I guess someone got to them. They didnt want the general public to know that these things are managed.

I dont know how E-bay works but it sure sounds like it might be international. These things are not always real simple. The US cannot regulate what goes on in another country any more than another country can regulate what goes on in the US. Why do you think a lot of international companies relocate to the Bahamas or other tax havens? Why do you think a lot of unethical manufacturers are located outside the US? Ive worked international. Ive seen firsthand the differences in regulation and enforcement in different countries. This is not directed at you Jack but many people like to badmouth the US and talk about how bad and oppressive it is. They dont have a clue how good we have it.

The mechanics of controlling this are not real simple plus enforcement costs money. How much in additional taxes are you willing to pay to better enforce this type of thing because it takes money to hire and outfit more people?

The Post Office is not a police force. Its not their job to make sure that everything shipped is legal. They have policies in place to try to not ship dangerous things, but its up to law enforcement groups to enforce the laws.

In my opinion, just because you cannot stop 100% of this type of thing from happening doesnt mean you throw up your hands and quit trying. You are never going to stop 100% of importing diseases or pests. It simply cant be done. You will never completely stop the Texas Tower shootings or all the Timothy McVeighs. You are never going to stop 100% of crime or corruption. Your success is not measured in stopping 100% of this stuff. Its measured in stopping only one of these. Then another. Then another. You keep trying.

The more you stop this stuff, the more individual freedom and rights we have to give up. Libel and slander laws limit freedom of speech. Parade permits can limit the right to assemble. There are plenty of places you cannot carry a firearm. That limits the right to bear arms. Our rights and freedoms are limited all the time. The trick is balancing your rights and freedoms as an individual with the rights and freedoms of other people. How you balance that determines your civilization. Again, Ive lived overseas. We are not doing badly here at all in spite of all the things you hear.

Im off my soap box. Have a good one.

 

[Jared77]

I guess what I'm saying is that EBay should make it so you can't bid on international items that are illegal to bring into the U.S. based on your registration. If you have a U.S. address listed, then you can't bid on that item. Its that easy. Here's the list of no-nos, make it happen.

If you choose to create a false account and bid on items and have them shipped, well then your knowingly breaking the law and that's a different situation all together.

And EBay should be held to a higher standard. We can hold bartenders liable for serving people who are deemed intoxicated, why can't we hold a multi billion dollar company to an even easier standard to maintain than trying to deem the blood alcohol and impairment in individuals.

 

[jackb]

Even a simple disclaimer stating that before you purchase plant material you should check with the regulations of your particular country regarding importing plants. Again, the seller has pages of prohibited items for sale every day of the year. Ebay got their profit for the sale, the seller got his money, the buyer gets the shaft. The process is flawed.

Jack B

 

[journey11]

I guess what I'm saying is that EBay should make it so you can't bid on international items that are illegal to bring into the U.S. based on your registration. If you have a U.S. address listed, then you can't bid on that item. Its that easy. Here's the list of no-nos, make it happen.

If you choose to create a false account and bid on items and have them shipped, well then your knowingly breaking the law and that's a different situation all together.

And EBay should be held to a higher standard. We can hold bartenders liable for serving people who are deemed intoxicated, why can't we hold a multi billion dollar company to an even easier standard to maintain than trying to deem the blood alcohol and impairment in individuals.

Something like that...automated...shouldn't be hard for a giant like eBay to do. I know when I order plants from online nurseries, they automatically check to see if certain plants are not permitted to be sold in my state, i.e. black currants, which are linked to white pine rust.