2021 Little Easy Bean Network - Bean Lovers Come Discover Something New !

Pulsegleaner

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do they know the lineage of soy? is it from adzuki? mung? etc? i've never actually studied that as i've really just liked regular beans and lima beans most of the time.
It isn't from either. Soybeans are of the genus Glycine. G. Max comes from the wild soybean, G, soja which I have also found seed of.
 

heirloomgal

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@flowerbug

I clicked on the link that was in one of your prior posts, a few # back; that's a very nice photo gallery you have there. I like the photography aspect of gardening too. I enjoy attempting to capture the beauty of the produce as it comes out of the garden, and the different varieties of things. Sometimes I may never grow a particular variety again, or for a long time, so it's nice to have a photographic record to remember. There are occasionally moments when I will find a garden picture I took years ago and think, 'Gosh, did I grow that?' The camera remembers better than I do :)

However, I haven't found it especially easy to get good photos or photos that reflect the real life beauty the human eye sees in the moment. Kinda like taking a picture of a gorgeous, blazing sunset you see one evening, that ends up looking less than ordinary through the lens. How to capture that 'special' quality is such a challenge. I use mainly my Tablet to take photos, not the most ideal, and very little beats natural summer lighting. But in the winter when I want to capture the dried beans on camera, warm outdoor weather I'm fresh out of. So I've experimented quite a bit with backgrounds and even pieces of foil or white paper to filter and reflect the light. I usually battle green and other greyish shades artificially cast onto the beans. I wish I knew a bit about principles of photography, as most of what I do is stumble around guessing. :)

Your garden is charming, and all the colourful decorations really add to that. Is that a fence I see around your main garden? I did see the photo of several grazing deer nearby, and after following this forum for the last months it seems several folks here have them as visitors. Those frogs were also something I didn't think would be in abundance in your area. I have a few in the fall, toads I think, but not many and it is always a surprise when I see one. It explains the odd garter snake I see too (not my favourite garden visitor I confess!)
 
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BeanWonderin

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Agate
(I grow as a soil replenisher)
Such nice photos, @heirloomgal. I love looking at everyone's bean photos - thank you! I'm curious to know why you grow Agate as a soil replenisher. Does it do a better job of fixing nitrogen, or is it something else? That is a beautiful bean, too.

Speaking of fixing nitrogen, have any of you found that innoculant is beneficial or not? I've read many places that it should be used to allow the beneficial transfer of nitrogen but I've never used it. I've also read elsewhere that it isn't necessary if your soil has those bacteria already. I guess I could do an experiment and find out but curious about everyone's experience here.
 

BeanWonderin

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looking at the bean pictures, reading stories here on TEG and thinking back to how i think i finally got Mom to understand my bean love. :) she has always loved picking rocks on the beaches here in MI and we have some spots we like to go as often as we can get away. so one time she was asking me why i wanted to plant so many different kinds of beans and i said it was just like how she felt picking rocks
I'm sure you must have had some good finds during your time in the UP, @flowerbug. As you know most of our beaches are filled with rocks. I grew up in West Michigan with pure sand beaches, so the rocks were an adjustment - but I love them now. Seeing the Agate bean @heirloomgal posted reminded me of rock picking. Agate is still king (queen?) but I was amused last summer to see a bunch of people walking beaches at night with ultraviolet flashlights. I guess the new thing is searching for Yooperlite, which glows under ultraviolet light but looks pretty plain otherwise. Now if we could cross a Yooperlite and an Agate bean...
 

flowerbug

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@flowerbug

I clicked on the link that was in one of your prior posts, a few # back; that's a very nice photo gallery you have there. I like the photography aspect of gardening too. I enjoy attempting to capture the beauty of the produce as it comes out of the garden, and the different varieties of things. Sometimes I may never grow a particular variety again, or for a long time, so it's nice to have a photographic record to remember. There are occasionally moments when I will find a garden picture I took years ago and think, 'Gosh, did I grow that?' The camera remembers better than I do :)

However, I haven't found it especially easy to get good photos or photos that reflect the real life beauty the human eye sees in the moment. Kinda like taking a picture of a gorgeous, blazing sunset you see one evening, that ends up looking less than ordinary through the lens. How to capture that 'special' quality is such a challenge. I use mainly my Tablet to take photos, not the most ideal, and very little beats natural summer lighting. But in the winter when I want to capture the dried beans on camera, warm outdoor weather I'm fresh out of. So I've experimented quite a bit with backgrounds and even pieces of foil or white paper to filter and reflect the light. I usually battle green and other greyish shades artificially cast onto the beans. I wish I knew a bit about principles of photography, as most of what I do is stumble around guessing. :)

Your garden is charming, and all the colourful decorations really add to that. Is that a fence I see around your main garden? I did see the photo of several grazing deer nearby, and after following this forum for the last months it seems several folks here have them as visitors. Those frogs were also something I didn't think would be in abundance in your area. I have a few in the fall, toads I think, but not many and it is always a surprise when I see one. It explains the odd garter snake I see too (not my favourite garden visitor I confess!)

the decorations are mostly of Mom's selection and arrangement, i just consult with the engineering and Mom may ignore me or not as suits her whims. :) yes, fences required here around the main vegetable patch. froggies used to be more plentiful, but the mosquito control people have drained all their puddles or poisoned their food sources so there are fewer here now than before. i encourage snakes, they eat the mice and chipmunks along with some other things. only one snake here is poisonous and it is fairly rare, but we are on the edge of their range so they can be around. i've not seen them yet but the neighbor down the road had some on her property.

i did my shopping today and ordered some photography gadgets that i hope will help me along. i have a colorimeter, a chip color plus gray scale kit and a more diffuse and adjustable light source on order and they should get here in the next few days/weeks for me to work with. for background i want for the more formal shots for things to be stable so that the color and lighting are consistent as much as possible. i haven't settled on one yet. a tan burlap or some other fabric with some texture will likely be attempted next, i don't like the mostly white i just used because it is too bright and that is distracting to me looking at it. just doesn't work in my eyes. we'll see how it goes. :)

the new camera is taking good pictures when i can get around to it. i'm looking forwards to getting going here soon on getting more pictures of all of the beans and not just the ones that i grew this year but of the entire collection. i mean who doesn't like a good excuse to look at beans again? :) :) :)
 

heirloomgal

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Such nice photos, @heirloomgal. I love looking at everyone's bean photos - thank you! I'm curious to know why you grow Agate as a soil replenisher. Does it do a better job of fixing nitrogen, or is it something else? That is a beautiful bean, too.

Speaking of fixing nitrogen, have any of you found that innoculant is beneficial or not? I've read many places that it should be used to allow the beneficial transfer of nitrogen but I've never used it. I've also read elsewhere that it isn't necessary if your soil has those bacteria already. I guess I could do an experiment and find out but curious about everyone's experience here.
Thank you @BeanWonderin I started experimenting this summer with different kinds of beans other than the 'standard' vulgaris bean. I had read that both fava and soybeans have the greatest abilities to fix nitrogen of all leguminous edible plants. I'm not actually sure if it's true but I thought I'd give it a try. I have no animal manure source other than what I purchase in bags, and I'd like to enrich my soils as the past couple years I used a lot of garden space for heirloom tomatoes. I think, to at least some degree, the tomatoes pulled a lot from my soil. I've always noticed whatever I plant in an area where beans have been grown the previous year, it really flourishes. Even flowers. So I did some research and came up with a couple soy types and favas. (I was also working on replenishing soil areas that have previously been used for fruiting shrubs.) I chose agate primarily because it's pretty :) Turns out, I found the plants actually very attractive. I think soybean plants have a certain 'houseplant' quality to them, especially the shape of the leaves. Too bad mice like them! They really went after those agate beans!

I've tried bean innoculant twice; I had kept it in the fridge prior to using it, I did everything one is apparently supposed to do to ensure innoculant success, had the bowl of water and bowl of dusting powder, dusted each bean evenly... and my conclusion is that there is no detectable difference! I probably haven't experimented enough to come to that conclusion, but after two tries with dozens of bean plants, that was what it seemed like to me.

While we are on the topic of soybeans, does anyone have suggestions about planting methods in terms of spacing? I tried block plantings, and then a few widely spaced individual plants. Seemed to me, block planting delayed maturity and the beans were on the smaller side, but production was very high. I got less from the widely spaced plants simply because there were less of them and more empty space. But they were the earliest maturity by far.
 
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flowerbug

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Such nice photos, @heirloomgal. I love looking at everyone's bean photos - thank you! I'm curious to know why you grow Agate as a soil replenisher. Does it do a better job of fixing nitrogen, or is it something else? That is a beautiful bean, too.

Speaking of fixing nitrogen, have any of you found that innoculant is beneficial or not? I've read many places that it should be used to allow the beneficial transfer of nitrogen but I've never used it. I've also read elsewhere that it isn't necessary if your soil has those bacteria already. I guess I could do an experiment and find out but curious about everyone's experience here.

i have not innoculated the gardens, but have no need to do that for soybeans since they have been grown around here for many years. the bacteria are in the garden soils here because when i grow them they do nodulate. other beans, some varieties have nodulated here (Yellow Eye and Purple Dove) and some of the others have not. these are a different bacterial species than the soybean bacteria.

the beaches and rock formations up north are great, some of the rocks here have come via auto/truck express instead of via glaciers. :) i've not found many agates up there, i haven't spent much time looking for them, we're more just general beach rock pickers, we like certain colors or shapes. we don't get to the UP much any more, it's a long haul from here. sometime though i should get picture of the chunk of native copper i found just a few weeks before i left.
 

Zeedman

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Agate
(I grow as a soil replenisher)

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Beerfriend

(same)
Soybeans will add N to the soil... but it would be a shame to waste the beans. Both of those are edamame varieties. :drool
Speaking of fixing nitrogen, have any of you found that innoculant is beneficial or not? I've read many places that it should be used to allow the beneficial transfer of nitrogen but I've never used it. I've also read elsewhere that it isn't necessary if your soil has those bacteria already. I guess I could do an experiment and find out but curious about everyone's experience here.
In my experience, once the bacteria for soybeans is present, it over-winters & survives in the soil. I've also seen evidence which suggests that the bacteria which causes nodules on clover may cross over to soybeans, because I broke new ground where clover was widespread, and the soybeans planted there the next year were heavily nodulated.

I used to inoculate all of my legumes. There are strains available which are each adapted to a particular species of legume (or group of species). I used one for beans & peas, one for soybeans, one for cowpeas, one for garbanzos, and one for adzuki & mung beans. No complaints, all plants were healthy. But some of those inoculants are hard to find & expensive, so I did a test about 10 years ago to see if they really made a difference. For one variety of each species, I planted two rows - one inoculated, one not.

To make a long story short, there was no observable difference in common beans, lima beans, runner beans, peas, or soybeans. Both rows of garbanzos were healthy, but couldn't be compared because the seed crop was ruined by weather. The mung beans were inconclusive for the same reason. Only the cowpeas & yardlong beans showed an improvement in the inoculated rows - and it was significant. Apparently that bacteria is unable to over-winter here, so that is the only inoculant I use now. For the rest, they might be beneficial if used on new ground, or where beans have not been grown before.
 
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Zeedman

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I had read that both fava and soybeans have the greatest abilities to fix nitrogen of all leguminous edible plants. I'm not actually sure if it's true but I thought I'd give it a try.
Cowpeas are fairly high nitrogen fixers also; but they would probably require inoculant for best results. If you are growing a vegetable that will both enrich the soil & provide food, the choice between those may be a matter of (1) climate (2) personal preference. Favas are better suited to cool summers, soybeans & cowpeas prefer warm summers. If you are growing a cover crop for soil enrichment only, it is best turned under before seeds begin to mature. If a perennial cover crop fits in your garden rotation, alfalfa produces more N than any of the annual legumes... and can be cut for mulch.
While we are on the topic of soybeans, does anyone have suggestions about planting methods in terms of spacing? I tried block plantings, and then a few widely spaced individual plants. Seemed to me, block planting delayed maturity and the beans were on the smaller side, but production was very high. I got less from the widely spaced plants simply because there were less of them and more empty space. But they were the earliest maturity by far.
That depends. As a rule, closer spacing produces more seed per row foot & more N; but the individual pods will tend to have fewer & smaller seeds, and DTM may be delayed. For edamame, where fatter seeds & more seeds per pod is desirable, wider spacing gives the best results. If the primary concern is soil enrichment, or if a grain (dry) soybean is grown, they can be spaced more closely. My default for grain soybeans is 2-3" apart after thinning, rows 24" apart... with wider rows if warranted by plant height (some varieties are 3-4' tall). For edamame, I generally thin to 3-4" apart, with 24" between rows (although I have done double rows 18" apart for short varieties). If you have the space to do so, thinning to 6" between plants for most edamame varieties will produce a high yield per plant of well-filled pods. Agate is a very early variety though, so 3-4" apart should be OK.

One thing to keep in mind, regarding close spacing. As you noticed, mice may not cause much damage to the rest of the garden, but they REALLY like soybeans (as do all herbivores large & small). They are most damaging when plants mature, and the dense leaf canopy gives them places to feed unobserved by potential predators. Left unchallenged, mice - especially voles - can "harvest" an entire soybean planting. Block plantings would be especially susceptible. You can reduce losses due to mice by wider row spacing, and by tying up the plants to keep them off the ground... but chances are that some form of rodent control will still be necessary.
 

flowerbug

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yeah, anytime i grow edible soy beans here the groundhogs and chipmunks go after them. the mice don't seem to bother them as much and we don't normally have a vole problem.

@Zeedman are Agate soy much different from Cha Kura Kake? the CKK's did well enough here i will be growing them again this coming season and by doing well i mean they survived repeated eating of all the tops and leaves off and still had some kind of a crop. these were grown inside the fenced gardens.

as for green manure both alfalfa and birdsfoot treefoil are great for that with a high percentage of nitrogen in the green leafy matter. i used a mix of both of these to recharge the back area of the NE Garden. chopping it all back a few times a season and letting the worms work on all that turned the mostly clay light soil i started with into a very nice dark clay garden soil which i wish i had a fence around so i could get a reliable bean and strawberry crop going in there.

what i would do instead when i had time (heh) is harvest some of the greens and dry them out and then store them for winter food for the worm farm.
 
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