A Seed Saver's Garden

[heirloomgal]

I hope too find this soon

Found it @Marie2020 !
You don't have to add the kale, you can just add more lentils instead. I do it with pure white potatoes & corn too sometimes, not a mix.

Kale Shepherd's Pie with Lentils
from 'The Book of Kale'

(* You could put the traditional ground beef bottom if you wanted)

Generous amount of oil or butter
Very large onion
Couple cloves of garlic
You can add herbs like, parsley or rosemary if you like them
1 1/2 cups lentils
Water enough to boil them, about 4 cups
Sweet potatoes and regular potatoes in whatever ratio you like, possibly 50/50
Butter, and milk if you like that in mashed potatoes
Many cups of shredded kale, I probably use about 4, you could use much more
Salt, as you like

Saute onion, then garlic and whatever else you might like in there re: herbs. I add parsley. Add lentils and water, cook until tender. Should be cooked up thick, not soupy. Salt to taste. Keep water to a bare minimum.

Separate pan, cook up the potatoes and sweet potatoes. (I boil them.) Then I mash them with lots of butter, salt and some water from the pot, personally I skip the milk.

The kale: steam it a bit (5 min) until the volume comes down a bit and it's tender. Butter and salt it too.

Put lentil mixture on bottom layer or a casserole dish, add the kale mixture, and then mashed potatoes.

You can bake it at 350 for 20-25 minutes.

I've made this many times, and people almost never know that there is any kale in there at all. The onions mixed into the lentils, and the buttery mashed potatoes virtually cover all the kale taste. The original recipe adds tomatoes into the pot with the onions and garlic. It's a good variation, but it's just as good without the tomatoes.

(Not my pictures)
Should look something like this with a more white potato top ...

 

[heirloomgal]

I'm trying to avoid the Zip- term, because I've found that brand to be problematic.

Agreed, I wouldn't trust ziplocs - the grocery store variety - for long term bean storage either. The seal is too poor and plastic too thin. I don't know what to call those little ziplock bags. It sort of like the situation here with snow machines, people call them Ski-doos though they aren't all that brand. Is there a different name for those little bags with the plastic ziploc tops?

 

[Blue-Jay]

Is there a different name for those little bags with the plastic ziploc tops?

As far as I know they call them Ziploc Baggies.

 

[Pulsegleaner]

I know that the little manila envelopes are called coin envelopes (at least that's it says on the box when I buy them at Staples). Odd considering you would not want to store a collectable coin in one (since they aren't acid free).

I don't know where they get them, but some of the restaurants around here send a different kind of sample (or as I think of them, condiment) cup, a tougher plastic one with a press on lid. That's GREAT for doing small fermentations (say the seeds of one cherry tomato).

I re-use the resealable plastic containers they use for food as mini seed sprouting greenhouses, as well as food storage (In fact we use so many in our household that their use has become their generic name, so that if someone says "I need a large Italian" (largest size plastic container), everyone knows what that means. Ditto a "Large Wonton" (quart soup container)).

 

[Pulsegleaner]

setting that aside, a consideration for the future, perhaps we find out that some seed lines are harboring negative traits that should not be passed along to any offspring at all? somehow perhaps someone selects such a narrow number of seeds or there isn't much diversity or disease wipes out all but an isolated population. you hope that the future would allow for us to fix such problems somehow, but until then sometimes perhaps the best thing to do is to not plant. very remote considerations, but things to think about.

I think I may have such a strain. The chickpeas I call "sticker chicks" have seed coats covered with numerous small sharp protrusions such that they will stick to surfaces like Velcro. This makes them VERY hard to clean if they get dirt on them (as well as meaning you can't wear a flannel shirt while sorting them, or they will get glued to it). I have to assume this is not a trait that is good for human use (maybe for a wild version, so it can hitchhike on animal fur).

But how can we tell if a trait is truly negative, and by whose standards? From the plants POV, the less attractive it is for an animal (including us) to eat, the better off it is.

in terms of diversity and requiring that people near a place be allowed to use it, well sure, but if their use is destructive then it has to be regulated. that is what so much of the world is currently struggling with due to population increases and needs for more food and water but also the destruction from wars, corrupt governments, corporations that have no ethics at all and even the animals themselves that are limited to where they can go and what they can eat because their wider range or habitat has been destroyed. if we don't regulate and limit there will be a certain loss of diversity and eventually the whole area is altered. having seen many restoration projects attempted and then destroyed by subsequent upheavals or poaching or raids or fires or droughts or ... well the world is a tough place to be these days. IMO we certainly need to back off our population and destructive tendencies. this requires regulations and people who aren't corrupt or easily moved.

Again, who decides? I know plenty of people who would say, "Mankind first, we use what we want however we want."

I also know people who would say "ANY use is abuse"

 

[Zeedman]

Agreed, I wouldn't trust ziplocs - the grocery store variety - for long term bean storage either. The seal is too poor and plastic too thin. I don't know what to call those little ziplock bags. It sort of like the situation here with snow machines, people call them Ski-doos though they aren't all that brand. Is there a different name for those little bags with the plastic ziploc tops?

I agree with @Bluejay77 ... for good or ill, the brand name "Ziploc" has become synonymous with any bag of that type, regardless of brand (at least here in the U.S.). Much like "kleenex" has become an accepted term for facial tissue. Most bags of the ziplock type are unfit for long-term seed storage, because they are either too thin (and porous) or the seal is too weak. Freezer bags, however, are (or should be) thicker, moisture proof, and with stronger, tighter seals. There are differences between brands though, some better than others, which is the reason I gave the recommendation I did - for beans. For small seeds like tomatoes, peppers, etc., most 1 quart name-brand freezer bags will provide adequate protection.

The strongest point in favor of using freezer bags for storage is the ability to expel excess air before storage, regardless of the quantity of seed enclosed. The 2nd best reason is that you can pack a lot of those bags into a much smaller space than could be achieved when using rigid containers.

 

[Zeedman]

@Zeedman a wonderfully well thought reply there, i'm going to talk about a few possible tangents. one which we know already happens and the other a very remote possibility. currently there are some crops i will not grow here due to animal predation but also because of genetic tinkering that has gone on. i don't wish to grow things i have to erect a fortress to defend against the animals (raccoons love corn - we have a lot of raccoons around all the time) but even if i did get the fences up that were good enough to keep them out (plus they would have to be electrified to keep them from climbing over) i cannot stop the wind or other pollination sources from contaminating a corn i would grow from the surrounding fields. the same goes for soybeans, alfalfa and other GMO modified plants that have had their germ line altered.

@flowerbug , as much as I wish it were otherwise, there are things I won't attempt to grow either - for much the same reasons you stated. I won't grow any member of the cabbage family, because cabbage loopers lay eggs all summer, and I would have to spray the plants every 2 weeks. The same goes for potatoes, which would attract Colorado potato beetles to the garden (I already have enough beetles, thank you). Both of those currently represent a level of difficulty beyond my comfort level... but who knows, I may find ways to overcome those obstacles in the future. Gardening is a constant learning process, and sometimes the challenges are part of the fun.

Some difficulties I have (mostly) overcome, such as fencing out deer & rabbits to grow soybeans, growing short-season corn to avoid GMO contamination, and row covers to defeat squash vine borer. I am prepared to electrify my fencing to keep raccoons out of my corn, but fortunately haven't needed to do so for years (I think dogs are keeping them away).

And for seed saving purposes, I don't currently grow any biennials for seed, because they have proven to be difficult to preserve root stock over our long winters. That is a problem I yet hope to overcome, at least on a limited basis... probably just a lack of the appropriate knowledge on my part. So far I've only had success wintering over onions.

setting that aside, a consideration for the future, perhaps we find out that some seed lines are harboring negative traits that should not be passed along to any offspring at all? somehow perhaps someone selects such a narrow number of seeds or there isn't much diversity or disease wipes out all but an isolated population. you hope that the future would allow for us to fix such problems somehow, but until then sometimes perhaps the best thing to do is to not plant. very remote considerations, but things to think about.

That a line of seeds may harbor undesirable traits is not in itself a reason not to preserve it. Those traits that appear negative could eventually prove to be useful, or be tied to traits which are; if not, they could be bred out, and any good traits in the same line could be preserved. Many vegetable varieties currently being grown have negative traits (we sometimes discuss those here in our garden posts) but we grow them anyway because their positives outweigh the negatives. Some heirloom tomatoes are a good example of this, or watermelons which thrive in short seasons but crack easily.

In fact, many of our modern varieties are so inbred, that many positive attributes have been bred out of them over time... which is the reason some of them (such as bell peppers) require so much coddling. Those missing attributes could one day be re-introduced if necessary from more strongly survival-oriented wild or semi-wild members of the genome... such as those being sought & grown by @Pulsegleaner . The greatest dilemma in preservation is that we may never know whether that "useless" plant we allow to become extinct, could have held the gene that would solve a future problem. It was only after an enormous testing program, for example, that the USDA discovered 2 soybeans out of the thousands of cultivars in their collection which did not produce the P34 allergen responsible for most human soybean allergies. Those genes are being incorporated into soybean varieties for commercial use.

 

[flowerbug]

Agreed, I wouldn't trust ziplocs - the grocery store variety - for long term bean storage either. The seal is too poor and plastic too thin. I don't know what to call those little ziplock bags. It sort of like the situation here with snow machines, people call them Ski-doos though they aren't all that brand. Is there a different name for those little bags with the plastic ziploc tops?

they do sell freezer grade bags which are a thicker plastic and a heavier seal, the problem we're having with them recently is that they seal so good we can't hardly get them open again without destroying the bag. as we do like to re-use them as many times as possible it's rather frustrating. the other day i bit through top and tore it off - no reuse for that one...

 

[flowerbug]

@Zeedman yes, i won't grow cabbages here again either. it was way too much work for me to do naturally even with the wasps helping at times they still could not get all the worms and i couldn't either. row covers must be properly set up when the butterflies are out. i don't want to grow things that i have to coddle. as much as i do like cabbage there are other plants that the butterflies don't do much to (turnips) and i can eat those instead or find even others to try some year. right now it doesn't matter since Mom won't eat any of them. which is sad to me since vegetable soup just isn't the same without some cabbage in it.

the sample cups i was talking about are those 2oz plastic containers you see being used at a lot of the big box stores when they are giving out free samples of items. i think they're a huge waste used that ways but i did recycle as many as i could get ahold of and i still grab some if i get a chance these days too if we're there when they are giving out samples. we haven't been out that much though in the past year with the crud.

 

[flowerbug]

i was trying to think of a trait of a plant that affects seed saving (to get a bit back on track here in this thread too ) that makes it harder for seed growers and harvesting but for a plant the other extreme would be a trait they'd like because it helps disperse their seeds further and faster.

extreme shatter is one that i've come across a few times. some lima beans and some kidney beans will do this, once dry if you touch the pod it will come apart suddenly and fling seeds around. i've had them in the box tops here in my room drying and once in a while a pod will come apart and fling a bean somewhere in my room. which in the middle of the night and a hard wood floor can make for some interesting sounds.

no, it's not mice i have to keep telling myself...