A Seed Saver's Garden

[heirloomgal]

A rather belated response to your interesting reply. I’ve assumed that it’s lack of movement that causes bagged pepper flowers to fall off in the absence of bees (there’s a bees’ nest quite close) but that probably doesn’t make much sense. It might get too humid causing rot. Over heating is an interesting possibility I hadn’t thought of. I wonder whether quite a lot of flowers don’t develop into fruit anyway but I just notice more if I’ve gone to the trouble of bagging them.

Most of the varieties I succeeded with are chillis. Mostly, like you, I grow only one of each variety except for varieties I particularly like, Padron and one or two sweet ones, for example. I grow far more chillis than we can actually use. I just find them fascinating and appealing plants!

I was interested in what you wrote about cleistogamous flowers. Some Capsicum species have smaller and more insignificant flowers than others and I’m wondering whether they’re less likely to cross. Something to look into and observe. Interesting that retail companies accept a small amount of crossing too. I’ve certainly experienced that.

You might find this interesting @Decoy1. It isn't a direct link to peppers and beans, but a deeper look at cross pollination in the industry. No wonder there is so much speculation about it, when some cross-polli info is considered proprietary. Interesting that we've had the same experience of seeing crosses in retail packets. The most memorable for me was a Marina di Chiogga squash, clearly crossed. I knew that OSC, the company I got it from, had isolation distances by the kilometer so I was surprised to see it.

Communing with Cosmos - EFAO

Starting in 2019, Kim Delaney conducted a farmer-led research project to see about reducing isolation distance for cut flower seed production.

efao.ca

 

[heirloomgal]

Grinders do a fine job but if your sporting follicles are speaking to you; the might say, “Dy-no-mite would be a lot more fun”!

No doubt!

 

[heirloomgal]

Can you plant a garden over an area that has had the stump base ground down? Or does the stump still remain fairly close to the surface?

 

[Zeedman]

A rather belated response to your interesting reply. I’ve assumed that it’s lack of movement that causes bagged pepper flowers to fall off in the absence of bees (there’s a bees’ nest quite close) but that probably doesn’t make much sense. It might get too humid causing rot. Over heating is an interesting possibility I hadn’t thought of. I wonder whether quite a lot of flowers don’t develop into fruit anyway but I just notice more if I’ve gone to the trouble of bagging them.

In my experience, pepper flowers (or at least those belonging to C. annuum) are self-pollinating, and don't need insects. They might not need much if any stimulation to set either.

When growing peppers for seed, I enclose the plants in plastic cages (covered by the lightest grade of spun polyester row cover) to exclude pollinators. The pepper set in the cages is reliably heavy - often more than the same variety grown uncovered. This seems to indicate that the higher humidity in the cages is actually beneficial. I've never measured the Summer temps within the cages, but I believe that any heating is nominal, and offset by the slight shading caused by the cover.

"Pelso" paprika pepper, grown in cage. The weeds obviously enjoyed the sheltered environment too. (The peppers didn't seem to mind.)

"Bacskia" sweet pepper, single plant stripped of leaves to show peppers

Other pepper species may not respond the same way; since I never grow more than one of those, I've never found the need to cage them. Some of those might benefit from insect activity.

Heat and/or dry soil conditions might cause blossom drop. The cages tend to stabilize soil temperature, by reducing direct sunlight. This also eliminates damage to peppers from sun scald.

As beneficial as covers are, I don't recommend leaving them completely closed long term. While the cover keeps bees & flies out, aphids can get in - and with their predators excluded, the aphid population can explode exponentially. I don't close the covers until flowering begins (after removing any flowers which have already opened). The cages remain fully closed only until I see large numbers of peppers have set, which is usually 3-4 weeks. Then I open the downwind side for the Summer, to allow insect predators back in. I never cease to be amazed how quickly wasps & ladybugs eliminate any aphids once the cover is open.

I would heartily recommend the cage method for anyone who has trouble getting a good crop of peppers.

 

[heirloomgal]

OK this is a moment. In 9 days it'll be December and I just ate a toasted tomato & cheese with mayo sandwich.
With my own longkeeper tomato! And it was fabulous.

One of the things I was worried about with this type of tomato was them being pasty. YICK. But these were a perfect texture, I'm actually sort of surprised that they were such a good texture. Not as strongly flavored as a fresh garden tomato, but darn good. Dang!

 

[Zeedman]

BTW, regarding crosses. For several years, I grew all of the caged peppers in the same area, separated by just 36 inches. I assumed that by excluding insects, there was no danger of crossing. Years later, when growing that seed for renewal, that assumption was proven wrong. Half of the 10 cages contained at least one cross. So to test whether that might have been wind pollination, I have since spread the cages further apart; 20-25', with other crops between. There have been no crosses since.

 

[Zeedman]

OK this is a moment. In 9 days it'll be December and I just ate a toasted tomato & cheese with mayo sandwich.
With my own longkeeper tomato! And it was fabulous.

One of the things I was worried about with this type of tomato was them being pasty. YICK. But these were a perfect texture, I'm actually sort of surprised that they were such a good texture. Not as strongly flavored as a fresh garden tomato, but darn good. Dang!
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Better than store bought... and you know their parents.

 

[Moon888]

Bush beans
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'Jing Orange' okra
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Pole bean, 'Northeaster'. One of the first to start climbing.
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'Queen of Malinalco' tomatillo
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[Moon888]

Seed saving is an essential part of my garden and garden activities. For several years now I have been growing, on a bit of a focus rotation, a number of different vegetables, and flowers, to build a 'seed ark'. Heirloom tomatoes, peppers, beans and peas have been the main crops, but I've also experimented with some unusual plants like morelle de balbis, Job's tears, spilanthes, sorghum, roselle, papalo, ashwaghanda, and cotton. I'm especially curious about unusually coloured vegetables, or those with unique growing habits, like velvet & variegated foliage tomatoes, purple potatoes or golden snow peas. However, I still hold a deep affection and appreciation for the 'old favourites' like Nantes carrots, Blue Lake beans or Bonnie Best tomatoes. New or old, I enjoy delicious and beautiful garden plants and vegetables.

In any summer, I'll choose a few different vegetables or flowers and try many different varieties. I'll grow anywhere from 10 to 100 different varieties of that crop to see the differences in their tastes, performance and productivity. Along with the 4 main seed saving crops I mentioned above, I've done trials of carrots, patty pan squash, pumpkins, zucchini, lettuce varieties, morning glories, basil, swiss chard, spinach, leeks, nigellas, watermelons, sunflowers, wild (er) type eggplants, kale, English sweet pea flowers, potatoes, poppies and beets.

This year I'm focusing mainly on beans for both fresh and dry use, but also peppers and peas.
We're only just beginning the season, but here are a few photos for 2021!

'Livingston's Pie Squash'
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'Amarillo Armadillo' Tomato (with eggshell fragments on top)
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'Blue Jade' dwarf corn
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'Red Emmalie', 'Amarosa', 'Purple Magic'and 'Peruvian Purple' potatoes
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'Alba Regia' bell pepper
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Black sesame seed plants
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'Bullnose' pepper
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'Petite Yellow' watermelon
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"Genovese' sweet basil
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You are a serious gardener : ) I hope to learn from and get inspired by this group. Still need to set up our tunnel system (from east coast/inland AU), then there should be no stopping me : )

 

[Moon888]

Tomatoes are all in their pots, or in the ground. Cages went up this week. Trying a new watering angle, by sinking pots in ground close by.
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A garden nemesis. Not quite as bad as the lamb's quarters or horsetail, but these never cease to appear. It' my own fault too, as I planted them years ago having bought them as an 'edible green' at a Seedy Saturday.
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Stump of the World tomato doing great, with all the rain and heat. Must be over 2ft high already.
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One of the bean gardens
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Have been a bit stumped by what to do with my ever growing compost pile that is not breaking down very quickly; but this year it occurred to me to sink dozens of seed potatoes in there and use it as a potato growing pile. The unwanted potato eyes I threw in there a few years ago as compost wound up sprouting and growing a couple potato crops. It was never weeded or watered either. Hoping I can repeat that success purposefully this time.
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'Poona Kheera' cucumber doing very well, with the addition of a scoop of chicken manure.
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Here is the difference between bean transplants and the same variety put in ground as seed. They get quite a head start as transplants. We'll see how much this adds up to when it's time to collect seeds.
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A few cutworms have taken out some beans, about 4 as far as I can tell. I've found all the offenders and dispatched them. Disappointing to find this, but 4 out of the couple hundred planted isn't too bad.
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