Am I the last to know?

[nittygrittydirtdigger]

Well I started this thread to find out about seed suppliers who do not use Monsanto seeds, and somehow managed to turn it into a Monsanto rant. Sigh.

Anyway who do you use for heirloom seeds?

Do you have a good source for cover crop seeds at a fair price? I have about an acre that I want to plant in clover next spring.

Thanks all.

 

[davaroo]

Well I started this thread to find out about seed suppliers who do not use Monsanto seeds, and somehow managed to turn it into a Monsanto rant. Sigh.

Anyway who do you use for heirloom seeds?

Do you have a good source for cover crop seeds at a fair price? I have about an acre that I want to plant in clover next spring.

Thanks all.

I kinda missed it in amongst your first post:

While looking for heirloom seeds today I came across a website that gave this link to Seminis, apparently an offshoot of Monsanto (home of the terminator seeds). There are some names on the list of their customers that really shocked me. Does anyone know more details about this? Is Johnny's Select Seeds really buying from a Monsanto company?

Where do you buy decent heirloom seeds?

I guess I read that as a general condemnation of Monsanto, et al.

I get a lot of seed from Sustainable Seed Company, as well as Baker Creek. Where they get it from is more than I wish to know, long about now....

 

[nittygrittydirtdigger]

I hear ya! I'm starting to be a fan of the "ignorance is bliss" mentality. It's like laws and sausage, if you enjoy either one, never ever ever learn about how they are made.

 

[herbsherbsflowers]

High Mowing Seeds in Vermont grows most of their own seeds. You can order online.

 

[nittygrittydirtdigger]

Wow, they have nice website....thanks!

http://www.highmowingseeds.com/

 

[dragonlaurel]

We have lost so many species of plants in the last few generations. Some of them may have been naturally resistant to bugs, diseases, or bad weather conditions that we have to deal with. We will never have the chance to find out if we only grow the varieties a few companies carry.
They are positioning themselves to be the main seed supplier for most of the food we eat here and in other parts of the world too. If you think food is expensive now- what would happen if one company got to supply almost all the farm and home garden seed market?

Does that help explain it? If not read my 2nd post in "my page". It's an article I did for earth day.

 

[seedcorn]

1) Wikipedia publishes writer's opinions, not necessarily factual.

2) Plant breeding (except for hobby people in back yard) is extremely expensive. Only companies w/deep pockets can afford to compete in this market. Even if you would develope a good line, marketing it is another challenge that is beyond description. Breeder companies maintain lines that are currently of no economic value but may in the future. So while it no longer exists by the small individuals that propogate seed, they have it in a vault somewhere. & no, they will not share w/the general population that did not spend the $$ to maintain these lines.

3) Blow in pollen will only change a populations genes IF it is then selected for. The only crop that can be appreciably affected is seed corn. In seed corn, the inbreds are made by covering up the silks, harvesting pollen and then pollinating the ear with collected pollen. With self pollinators as wheat, canola, soybeans, etc the odds of this happening to affect the over-all crop are astronomical, again unless you pollinate them yourselves & then select for it.

4) People selecting for heirloom varieties have no fear of crosspollination as long as they use simple breeding methods. One thing all breeders know is to keep your breeder stock at a safe distance from another variety or protect the pollination. It's why you don't interplant heirloom varieties because side by side, they run the possibility of crossing. Keep them 100' apart, problem solved.

5) Hate chem companies all you want but without them, food prices would be 10X more expensive.

6) Glyphosate was a waste product that has no carryover effects in the soil for plants. So it is no longer being dumped into an environmental land fills at huge rates.

 

[Reinbeau]

SO whats Monsanto's take on this? What's their side of the debate? Anybody have links to that?

For the record, there is nothing new about a company selling its own, proprietary seed. There were competitive "seed wars" in the 19th Century that would surprise us today, with out fair trade laws. How do you think we GOT all this diversity we love, in the first place?
Someone deliberately bred the plant, that's how. It didn't exist, so they crossed and manipulated and spliced and voila! Something new was born. My favorite tomato is the 'Rutgers' variety - one that was "engineered" via manipulation in the 1930's. Today it is an 'heirloom.' Go figger.

Frankly, I rather doubt Monsanto gives a rats derriere about what you do in your garden, or some seed seller offering heirloom bush beans. Diversity is, indeed, best employed by the small guy. And as Steve suggests nearly all the 'bio-diverse' seed sellers obtain their seeds from larger concerns - where the crops are manipulated to give predictable results.

Even the much lauded Seed Savers has grown huge from it's humble beginnings. It 'aint a few people handing around seeds, anymore. Now that they offer large quantities of the same seed to all the same people - well, what is so diverse about that?
True diversity is really only possible at the local level.

Again, I wonder what Monsanto has to say 'bout all this. Global domination by seed?
Interesting notion...

Dave, Monsanto can and will sue you for what grows in your gardens, or in your fields. Have you ever read the Percy Schmeiser saga? It's enlightening to say the least. I see that you work for a major pharmaceutical company - doesn't make you bad, but it definitely will make you look at these battles from a different perspective from many of us. Yes, people have to eat. They also need to eat a variety of food available from many sources. Monsanto is on a bender to make sure they have a lock on the very germ plasm that our food comes from. You may not see that as bad, but many of us do.

I do generally condemn Monsato's business practices. Heck, given today's economic climate, I'm pretty much against most huge corporations (including big pharm and particularly big ag) - and I'm a diehard conservative businesswoman. But that's a political rant for another forum. I will just say if they were doing business in an honest, responsible way I wouldn't feel the way I do, but most are not - yes, a sweeping statement, but it's how I feel.

As for Johnny's and Seminis, please read what they have to say about it (warning it is a pdf). I heard this and investigated it earlier this year. Johnny's is taking the proper steps to rid themselves from Seminis' seeds, and I'm happy with it. I continue to order from them.

 

[davaroo]

I'm one of those that reckon such things work themselves out in their own way. Oh I used to wave my fist at corporate logos - I was a pretty hardcore eff the establishment sort of guy. I grew my hair, ate tofu and stopped wearing underwear - all that stuff.

Then I learned that I can only change my corner of the world and that I'm not cut from revolutionary cloth. Which puts me in the middle, somewhere. The fence is sometimes an uncomfortable place to sit, I admit it. But at least you can see both sides - and so know which one you prefer to come down on.

I stopped tilting at windmills a few seasons back. For now, I'll bide my time on this debate.

 

[Reinbeau]

Well, my point is I am not on the left, living in a yurt, eating granola - I'm a 53 year old well-read, hardcore conservative who realizes what's going on isn't business, but greed and domination. More and more are coming to realize the business climate is rotten to the core in this country, and worldwide. I will not bide my time on this debate, it's too important.