bees confiscated in illinois

[so lucky]

It seemed to me that Ingram was saying, backed up by all those years of experience, that foul brood appears to show up in the samples taken, while not showing up in the whole remaining hive. Like the act of removing the sample from the hive causes foul brood to take hold, due to antiseptic qualities of the honey and bee activity in an active hive keeping it in check.
It also seemed to me he was saying that the state inspectors for the honey bee/hive industry aren't required to know very much about beekeeping, or bee issues.
He was also very miffed that the inspector did the raid on a Sunday when Ingram was out of state, with no notice given.
I'd have to take a side with these issues, too.

Jared77, can you name any universities that are studying anything that Monsanto creates, other than those studies funded by Monsanto? A connection between Round-up and bees seems like a pretty remote thing to be studying, considering that the connection between BT corn and honeybees is pretty much being ignored.

 

[seedcorn]

For those not understanding how university studies are accomplished, let me explain. Studies are financed by state, federal, and/or private money. If done by private money, the private money can put in a rider that the results are for their use only. Otherwise EVERY study is open to general public with procedures and results.

Before any trait is legalized, it will have minimum of 3 year study. While Monsanto pays for university studies, so do their competitors. Land grant universities, professors, and people going for their masters/PHD's have their reputations at stake, they do solid research. In the case of chemicals, it is studied at 10X rates to see if there are any problems. The reason you don't read of problems with traits and bees is not that they haven't been studied, but that no problems have been observed by anyone-not the bee keepers or people using the products. If there was a possible link, don't you think the fruit industry and/or bee industry would be (at the least) suggesting this and lobbying for restrictions?

 

[so lucky]

From what I understand, the studies are relatively short term, say for 3 months or 6 months. If no problems are found, that is what is reported. But if problems start cropping up after a year, those are not considered. From what I have read, Seedcorn, (and I know you have some big issues with anybody dissing Monsanto), from what I have read, their studies didn't last long enough to see what the cumulative effect would be, or how the second or third generation of bees or rats, or whatever, was affected, particularly hormonal and endocrine system changes. After all, funding for testing is not a never-ending proposition, altho maybe it should be.

 

[secuono]

Why do you register bees??

 

[seedcorn]

1) most studies are minimum of 2 years in length--length of study for phd.
2). No problem people not liking Monsanto, just use rational arguments based on facts. Way too many like this where bees are dieing has to be Monsanto's fault. Every problem-regardless of problem (bee keeper has bees and equipment confiscated when he refuses to obey laws)-some find a way to blame them.
3). If any sign of potential problems show up, product is stopped. In the 60's this wasn't always the case vs. now. For those that bring up Agent Orange--the choices were defoliate or be killed by cong. Given choice between radiation from dropping bomb on Japan vs. another D day on Japan, my dad always defended the bomb seeing how he was to be the first wave on the invasion.
4). I wish people would put blame where it belongs. Guess who first introduced Bt corn. Guess who sells the most Bt corn. Monsanto wrong answer........
5). We now have over 20 years of feeding GMO corn to poultry and swine--no problems observed. That represents over 40 generations for each species.

Personally, I don't like Bt but really like what the RW gene has brought to the table.

 

[bj taylor]

I value this forum a lot. I enjoy the remarks, the education, and the camaraderie of fellow gardeners. therefore, I will drop this subject and make effort to refrain from topics that create problems. seedcorn, you and I must agree to disagree if that's ok with you.

 

[seedcorn]

Why do you register bees??

Great question. State to state ordinance. It is usually no charge. The bee organizations wanted it so that potential bee problems can be corrected or controlled. Think of them more as extension help vs. gastapo. Foul brood is a serious problem that is very contagious and can wipe out an entire colony of bees in a very short time.

 

[ducks4you]

Doesn't matter. Hiring people with NO knowledge and NO training in any public policing agency, AND taking his bees when he wasn't on the property withOUT a warrent is ILLEGAL. I live in IL. I didn't know about this story until I read it HERE. I'm contacting the Champaign County Farm Bureau, of which I am a member, to find out more.
I own livestock. I was aware of N.A.I.S in 2007, which was the Department of Agriculture's wish to compel and then force livestock owners to tag and record all livestock purchases, births and deaths, on the excuse that it would prevent the spread of livestock disease. The depression happened before they could go full forward on this plan, but now we see the evidence. In 2007, in Illinois periodicals, they were advertising to hire anybody for these jobs.
(And, of course, friends of Monsanto own the companies who make the tags that you have to buy to use.)
PLEASE read the article through. It's just like the IRS scandel. If it happens to your neighbor, it's bad luck. If it happens to YOU, the IL Agriculture Gestapo has stolen your property.

 

[seedcorn]

Following the Illinois Bees and Apiaries Act (510 ILCS 20/1 et seq.), Ingram received an IDofA Apiary Inspection Site Report in November that said on Sunday, October 23, 2011; Inspector Susan Kivikko examined his apiary.

In the report, Kivikko commented that foulbrood [was] present - Colonies weak. She said that out of 19 colonies, 15 were examined and 15 samples of suspected foulbrood were gathered. 11 were dead.

Next, Ingram received a Disease Notice dated November 9, 2011, and a copy of the Bee Disease Diagnosis submitted by Kivikko to the USDA Bee research Laboratory in Maryland, received at the lab 10/27/11, and diagnosed 11/01/11. The notice stated that yes, Ingrams apiary was infected with foulbrood, and that treatment by burning is ordered in accordance with Sec. 60.50(b) of the Bees and Apiaries Act.

Going back to the summer beekeepers picnic in July, in a phone call to Kivikko on Monday, April 30, she confirmed that yes, Ingram had asked her to look at a frame that his bees ignored, and asked her to test it for chemicals. She did have the comb tested for foulbrood, and yes, the comb did test positive. Ingram did not receive an Apiary Inspection Site Report, since he gave the frame to Kivikko at a picnic. But he did not receive a Disease Notice or Bee Disease Diagnosis from that sample.

All combs, frames, honey and bees must be destroyed by burning . . . Hive bodies, supers, bottom boards, inner and outer covers may be salvaged by sanitizing with a scorching flame, such as a propane torch. The notice was signed by Kivikko, and said Ingram must comply with the order by November 25, 2011

Notified in November 9, 2011. He painted over hives asked to destroy (why did he do that?). They gave him an extension from Nov 25 to March of 2012 to destroy the infected hives. If he thought he didn't have the disease, why wouldn't he call them out in the 4 monthes to talk and prove he was clean? Why are no local bee experts called upon to testify for him?

I find it interesting that Kivikko works Sundays and weekends.

And what does Monsanto or any AG company have to do with this?

 

[bj taylor]

I was going to drop the subject, but it has keep moving so i'm back in again

this man may or may not have had foulbrood. I do not know the bee world well enough to argue his case. that he does not have fellow bee keepers to testify on his behalf is not significant to me. he may be an mean old coot & they're glad he's getting his dues for all I know. it does not signify the validity of his claim or in-validate it.

to me the major point is governmental entities coming onto private property without consent from property owner or warrant. if he was a law-breaker, then due process of law is to be followed and that includes private property rights being respected (for the time being). it shares a close similarity to Michigan's feral hog policy that outlined pigs of different colors among other traits to signal feral genetics which was pushing pig farmers toward white pigs to avoid the hassle from government entities coming onto their property challenging their herd's right to exist. one of the consequences has perhaps been the loss of genetic diversity and heritage breeds in order to pacify the government's "no tolerance" policy which absolves them from any real thinking or decision-making.

Monsanto is wrapped up in this because this man believed his hives were being adversely affected by roundup. as a herbicide, it is not supposed to be toxic to other than plant material. my question to that is, why the precautions on the label including keeping children and pets off until dry. if it can have an adverse effect on humans or pets - why not bees?
Monsanto plays a significant role in political decisions as evidenced by the recent supreme court decision in which justice Thomas should have recused himself because he was a former employee of Monsanto - but did not. the case was decided in Monsanto's favor. the deputy commissioner of the fda is a former Monsanto executive. to think Monsanto is an innocent bystander in events that revolve around them is not feasible for me.

the question of whether genetically modified food crops are safe or not has not been answered. 40 generations of animal specie is not long enough to decide if it is good for human consumption in my opinion. I believe the public should be allowed to make that decision for themselves via labeled food products. how do we know this is not a contributing factor in the explosion of autism in children in recent years resulting from gmo baby formula? or a thousand other such questions. to hide the nature of our food supply is not in the public's best interest and neither do I believe the government is the best body to regulate "safe" foods. imho