Can't Grow Anything, Either!

[Jared77]

Steve the late Vincent Price was a well known art collector. When asked about his collection he said he collected what he liked because he was the one that had to live with it! Never were truer words spoken.

Wanna know a little secret? I grow a bunch of Early Girl tomatoes. Sure I dabble with some different varieties but my wife likes EG and EG do well for me so I grow EGs. And I mean A LOT of EGs. I pick buckets of them. Sure I've had Green Zebras, Lemon boys, Jet Stars, Black Krims, and others I know I'm forgetting but my main tomato in the garden is the Early Girl. They taste good, and even if they are small they ripen with plenty of time for me to pick them, and I'll start getting them just before 4th of July till mid Oct when the frost finally does them in. I've tried a number of "Boy tomatoes" but what I get out of them isn't enough to justify keeping them. Sure Ill get a couple of big slicers but dedicating the space that they take up to get a couple classic beef steaks doesn't begin to compare to the total number of tomatoes I get from my EGs. My wife has told me once when she was making what seemed like her 1 billion tomato sandwich over the summer from EGs that I'd brought up to the house that she'd rather have to use a whole EG and have that many more total tomatoes to make a sandwich than cut up part of a bigger beefsteak and not have as many tomatoes. Why mess with a good thing? Because they are Early Girls? Really? We're the ones eating them, I don't care what anybody else thinks. I've got tomatoes that we want.

I will always have some different ones like my Black Krims, & Lemon Boys, but the EGs are my staple. Ill keep trying new varieties like the White Queens from Baker Creek, and I'm chomping at the bit to try Japanese Black Trifele, and Anna Russian since my experiences with Romas leave a lot to be desired. They are plenty productive but flavor is lacking on them when I've grown them. Might as well buy grocery store for all the flavor they have. So I'm looking to upgrade. And if those don't do it, I'll find something else that will. Even if they do, I'll be trying other things. That's part of the fun for me in the garden. Having successes and failures with varieties new to me.

Seriously though who cares. Grow what works for you, and works for where you are geographically. I mean yeah it would be great if the season was long enough to grow really big old school watermelons like I remember as a kid that my Aunt and Uncle grew but they lived in Georgia! We'd go visit them or they'd visit us and they had some KILLER watermelon. Big ole striped ovals of pure watermelon bliss. Seeds you could spit forever too. But I grew up and live in Michigan so growing anything other than Sugar baby or Yellow Dolls and I'm not even going to get a crop. They'll freeze on the vine. And even I grow Yellow Dolls or Sugar Babies getting a crop is iffy. But then I'd be trading that for fire ants and rain on Christmas instead of snow. So you take the good with the bad.

Heck I did a back flip last year when I was able to FINALLY got a couple of bell peppers in another color other than green! My seasons just not long enough for most of the traditional bell varieties. I'm trying new varieties and maybe start them REALLY early even to the point of pinching early blossoms before I finally get them in the ground and maybe Ill get some. I don't know though but it won't stop me from trying. I grow some take notes and keep trying. Ill get there at some point. Maybe I'll get lucky, maybe I'll finally eliminate enough types that I finally pick one that works for me. I was out in long sleeves and the season was winding down and I stumbled onto some red bells. I literally did a dance right there in the middle of the row. I think it was a fluke given the weather we had but I'm going to try them again and see.

I have lots of failures. Sometimes those failures mean I just have more green peppers that didn't turn but are still edible. Its good they don't go to waste but its frustrating because I didn't get what I wanted from them. Others end up being yanked up and tossed and I shake my head wondering what the heck was I was thinking when I planted them. For example when I planted my gherkin pickles. That was a big failure. Male and female plants to make a hybrid miniature pickle. I couldn't plant enough to make it worthwhile. The few I got were good and correct but I'd have to plant a field of them to get enough to can. It was a MAJOR miss. Paid more than I normally did for seeds too, but oh well I tried. At least then I knew. But its in my willingness to take a risk that I've also learned what works for us. If I hadn't been on TEG I would never EVER have planted Black Krims. Those things are U.G.L.Y. UGLY!!! But they taste absolutely amazing. Lot of reviews on here from some of the regulars here convinced me I need to plant a couple. So I did and boy am I glad that I did.

So I have my little row of misfit plants...which is my little group of varieties that I'm not sure will work in my area so lets keep it simple and try a handful of them and see what happens. Take mental notes, hopefully find something I want to grow again like my Black Krims and Yellow Boys. Then there things I won't like Green Zebras, any of the "Boy variety" of tomatoes, Jet Stars, the next year. I'm just glad that there are SOOO many varieties that I get to keep trying new things that I'll be breaking down and returning nitrogen to the soil myself before I ever run out of something new to try in my garden.

Keep the faith Steve

 

[897tgigvib]

Jared, I have often thought about crossing early girl with stupice...

 

[digitS']

Ah but my Stupice tomatoes - DW called my "stupid tomatoes," Marshall . . . They really tended to be deformed and for a small tomato, that was unacceptable.

Jared, I continue to grow open-pollinated varieties against the Early Girl. I am influenced by others (see above with DW). Buying seed and growing EG for 25+ has defined me :/. What I'm thinking is that we now have more than 1 generation that associate the taste of a fresh, garden tomato with an Early Girl. I think that is fine and the fact that I continue to grow them just shows that I'm happy with all sorts of things about the variety. Still . . . I'll try Fireworks this year and see how they compare .

Not "betting the farm" on some 1 unproven variety is very wise. Beginning gardeners often go by recognizing a name. That is okay, generally but as they say "all generalities are false, including this one."

I'd imagine that every Master Gardener group at the county Coop Ex has a "master list" of what to recommend. I sure hope so. Just pick up the phone and have a note pad handy! The plant sellers at the farmers' market should be able to help. If you are dealing with someone who will be there the entire season and sells plants early and produce late - I think they should be a good source of variety info. What will they be selling off their tables 2 or 3 months from now? "Weren't you the one with the beautiful ____ (fill in the blank) last year? What were those?" I bet they will tell you.

Steve

 

[digitS']

. . . I figure I need to expand
my selections to discover which ones I prefer as far as production , taste and storage. . .

My resistance to late harvest varieties is not serving me well in the storage bin, Thistle'.

Compromise is also a good trait for a gardener. Being a "stick in the mud," sure isn't! (I'd sooo like to go back and change that word "compromise" to something else like "flexibility" but that seems a little less than what I mean. Recognizing problems and adapting - maybe that is the right idea .)

Steve

 

[Smart Red]

It seems everyone has their favorite when it comes to tomatoes. Mine is Rutgers! I grow lots of different varieties - my fave is Black Sea Man - but for production, taste, uniformity, and consistant ripening for canning I have to have my Rutgers. Since they are determinate - probably the only determinate I grow nowadays, I start some seeds every three weeks until they won't be ripe by frost.

Love, Smart Red

 

[digitS']

But . . . that must mean you pull those Rutger determinates outta the ground before the growing season is over, Linn! Otherwise, the fruit is going to be harvested and they will just fade into the vagaries of unproductive old age :/.

Believe it or not, I can grow a determinate like Gold Nugget and it is quick enuf to expend itself just like probably any determinate in Bay's garden, for example. It upsets me! Still, I'll be growing Legend again this year. It doesn't quite self-destruct like some of them do and the timing of harvest is just right where they kick out all these tomatoes and . . . then, the garden freezes.

Ripping things out? That is another thing beginning gardeners need to try. A big tomato plant is one thing but lettuce that's bolting to seed? Take it out! Even if you don't have use for that ground - and you should. Leaving some of those old plants is just allowing things like aphids to turn your garden into Bug Metropolis! . . . .

Young plants should go, too. Don't crowd. You aren't doing your plants any favors if they struggle with each other for sunlight, water & nutrients. Look on it as allowing some to thrive while you grow "compost crops." Nothing wrong with that.

Steve
edited to add (click):

 

[Jared77]

Marshall I like the way you think!!! I may have to try that in the coming years here. Maybe Ill put them in pots next to one another FAAAR away from the garden and see how the F1s produce. Geez that does get the wheels turning.

Smart Red its funny you mentioned Rutgers its on my need to try list to replace Romas. Maybe Ill have a pasta sauce mix of Anna Russians, Rutgers, and Black Trifles.

Steve that's where I'm at too. The EGs are a good workhorse tomato in my garden and have earned their place. Just like Black Krims and Lemon Boys have earned their place too. I've managed to eliminate a bunch of tomatoes too, so its still trial and error. Stupice is another that's on my list of need to try.

I've found most of the sellers at the Farmers Market always happy to share info too. They often share info with me like why they have variety A instead of variety B when I ask why they don't have variety B. Usually they've already tried variety B and will share their reasons and it helps too. Sometimes its something as simple as visually appealing since they are trying to sell a product where as someone like me looks are not nearly as important since they are being used for so many different things.

 

[897tgigvib]

I never once got a deformed Stupice. Years ago I was in a Tomato group on Yahoo which no longer exists. We did talk about our stupice tomatoes several times. Back around '03 and the few years before then some of us were getting slight differences in what we had for stupice. Everyone described having tomatoes a bit smaller than early girl but nice and round.

Some were getting yellow shouldered stupice, others getting red shouldered. Mine were slightly dark green shouldered, showing the star shape of the calyx with a very slight yellow to the shoulders. Everyone agreed they had a sweeter flavor than early girl, some describing the flavor as being nearly like a large tomato, but very sweet and good. One gal even said stupice was the first and only tomato she ever liked to eat. Those who liked to grow it for earliness most were those who planted extra early in the season. They do tolerate cool conditions better than most.

Not one person spoke of deformed stupice. Digit, my guess is that you either do not have pure seed or you have a poor selection. I think poor selection. There was indeed some variations in them 10 years ago. Though seed companies are good at evening out the variations by selecting for trueness to type, I am thinking that my old friends on that old wild and crazy yahoo tomato maniacs group who have saved seed now have well selected variations of stupice. It would be interesting to be able to track the history of your particular stupice.

There actually can be another cause, but I really don't think it would be applicable to your deformed tomatoes. An imbalance of nutrients can make tomatoes get those weird little spikes and bumps on them. I only mention it, but not as a possible cause for your deformed stupice. Your other tomatoes have a beauty to them. I really think you have an unusual selection, (poorly selected), or else they are crossed up. If you have some photos and a list of what they may have potentially crossed with in the past it might be a fun thing to guess. Stupice crossed with yellow pear for instance would sure make some odd tomatoes, or crossed with oxheart...

It also might be interesting if you still had your original seed, or at least where it came from...

 

[897tgigvib]

Jared, if you do cross stupice with egf1, let the stupice be the female parent.

The seed from the cross, if successful, will grow as 50% regular leaf, and 50% potato leaf, because i think (keyword is think...am not sure...) that eg is heterozygous for pl and rl.

I surely believe those you will want to save as best from this cross will be the regular leaf.

Remember, it is MUCH more difficult to stabilize a DOMINANT trait than a recessive trait.

^ looking up at that sentence to make sure I said it right^ double check!
YEP, said it right.

You probably know that, and why. Those showing the dominant trait have a real chance of carrying the recessive trait that can be expressed in later generations...but some will be D/D for the dominant trait, and those will be the ones to find.

That is best done, (by normal gardeners without pcr testing lab equipment), by individual plant seed saving, followed by a separate plot of at least 8 plants from each to give a decent chi square probability of selection for pure double dominant genetics. Luckily, with tomatoes, the leaf form shows almost immediately after germination, so those that show potato leaf anywhere in the start batch are already known. Additionally, those will probably still make good eating tomatoes, and who knows, but may wind up being what you want anyway, just not the original intent.

Simultaneously, you'll be wanting them to have eg's tough sure grow and quick grow traits. Those will have the strong heavy stems of eg. Those are also DOMINANT traits to be selected also as separate plant selections.

The project can be completed for the major desired traits in as little as 3 years! After that is ensuring uniformity of things like flavor, color, and quick ripening. For these things, spread the seed around to friends. Each will select differently, and several variations will emerge!

Technically for the cross, STUPICE MAKES A TENDER STIGMA. That makes it difficult to do the cross pollination. It may require many attempts. I tried years ago to cross it with Snow White. The stigmas kept breaking. My fat neanderthal fingers! grrr! But I bet you can do it!

If you want to know my method let me know, but not until you try your method first. Tender and fragile stigmas do make it a difficult cross.

 

[digitS']

Found it! (Not the seed but the source . . .)

Most of my seed comes from catalog outfits. If it had been purchased at a garden center, the receipts don't usually give much info. But, here it is: Totally Tomatoes, 13 Feb 2006. I was disappointed (as well as defensive ) so there were no seeds saved.

Yes, I have "bad-mouthed" Stupice quite a bit since. But, you have to understand that varieties grow differently in different gardens. I'd be willing to blame my rocky soil or any number of other growing conditions as Totally Tomatoes. (I have more of a problem with them selling other veggies in that "totally" catalog .) And, it is easy for me to just say, "Stupice doesn't work for me."

Steve

Not a Stupice . . . but, a song for a click: