Caustic chemicals

[so lucky]

I think Seedcorn is saying that even something as benign as apple cider vinegar is toxic in high enough concentration or volume. It is toxic to plants if used straight. Probably toxic to fish and animals, too, if in high volume.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Anything in excess can be dangerous. A few years ago I heard of a woman that killed herself by drinking too much water in one of those how much water can you drink before you have to go contests at some radio station. I do believe in moderation.

I also believe that if something can kill, it can make you dead. It doesnt matter if it is natural or manmade. Mother Nature makes some really nasty poisons naturally. Anything needs to be used correctly, whether organic or manmade.

Im a huge fan of stuff that has limited targets like BT, but read the warnings on the label. Ive just started seeing those first small grasshoppers so I spread the Nosema Iocustae in the tall grass last night. Its sort of a BT for grasshoppers and certain crickets. Very limited in what it targets and supposedly a very safe product to use but there are still warnings on the label, like dont put it on stuff you are going to eat. Its about as organic as you can get, since it is natural and very targeted but you still need ot take proper precautions.

One of my personal rants. Have you ever walked through the perfume section of a department store? Breathing that stuff cant be healthy. I get sick just walking through that. They are often right at the entryway where all I can do is hold my breath and try to get through.

Seedcorn, I think what you are after is for people to be consistent. Its not going to happen, youre dealing with people. I started to list some examples, but that would be getting political and distract from your post. Probably get me censored and this thread shut down too and that doesnt happen on this Gardening Forum often.

Probably best if I just close but yeah, I think I see where you are coming from.

 

[Nyboy]

I was shocked when I read do not swallow on toothpaste label.

 

[ducks4you]

I have a septic tank and a leach field. I don't put anything down either that I don't want to end up in my well, which I need to get a new pump to access. We don't use the well for our water right now--the town has city water.
I'm with you. Don't get why everyone is so comfortable letting their local water treatment plant clean out caustic chemicals. You know, boiling water can clear up most drain clogs. CLR also works well and isn't poisonous. I use traps in my kitchen sink so I don't let very much go down my drains anyway. Haven't had a single clog in my kitchen sinks since I moved in 12 years ago.

 

[baymule]

I was shocked when I read do not swallow on toothpaste label.

Yeah and it used to come in LEAD tubes! Go around your house and read labels. You will get shocked some more and might even start throwing the toxic chemical concoctions out, replacing them with names you can pronounce.

 

[journey11]

I think Seedcorn is saying that even something as benign as apple cider vinegar is toxic in high enough concentration or volume. It is toxic to plants if used straight. Probably toxic to fish and animals, too, if in high volume.

That is what I gathered... But making comparisons between acres of fields regularly sprayed with chemicals to using a little vinegar to clean your bathtub is inconsistent. Just the run-off from fertiliers does enough damage to the water and the critters living in those ecosystems adjacent (think frogs with extra legs...)

I'm on a septic too. There is only so much of anything that you can put down it that will not cause problems. Anything in excess is toxic... Yep, heard about the water lady too...crazy, huh! A little ACV in the sink or a little bit of calcium chloride on the sidewalk...the soil can filter and deal with that. The other stuff in the rant, I agree with...phosphates, phthalates and all those other unnatural additives to cleaners and beauty products are a problem, but probably moreso to the person whose skin is absorbing them than the small amounts that go down the drain. Where do they go after that and how long does it take for them to break down, I would like to know those specifics as well. Anything that is residual in the water supply in large enough quantities will eventually cause someone downstream some problems.

Half-life usually refers to radio-active decay. Depending on what chemicals you are talking about, some things can be broken down into their component elements, neutralized or converted by reaction with other elements or compounds immediately upon contact, changing its characteristic properties instantly. It just depends exactly what "chemical" you are talking about. Some are naturally occuring in the environment as it is. ACV is the by-product of fermentation by beneficial bacteria and yeast. It is no more toxic than what occurs in your compost pile or roadkill. You're not going to be using large enough quantities of it under normal circumstances to cause any problem with the soil or water table.

 

[seedcorn]

I think Seedcorn is saying that even something as benign as apple cider vinegar is toxic in high enough concentration or volume. It is toxic to plants if used straight. Probably toxic to fish and animals, too, if in high volume.

Yes.

Reason for post was:

Chance to rant-accomplished.
Make people think-accomplished.

Great Day!

Half life is just that the length of time anything exists till half is gone or broke down. It's used in a lot of areas.

For your consideration. Farmer puts on top 3" of soil the amount of phosphates that he removed from the previous crop to get the soil built back to where it started. Standard is 60#\acre.

Americans will do 4 loads of clothes/week using 100 gallons of water (standard load for top mount washer) per load. Gallon weighs. 9 pounds so in laundry adding 2800 pounds of phosphate water (plus other chemicals/pollutants) directly into water supply 6+' feet below. This doesn't count the phosphates from washing body, hands, dishes, cars, etc......

Now for those of you who compost as well and think, never too much.....take a soil sample from run-off after a rain. Get back to me when you wake up from passing out. That much went deep in your soil directly into your water source.

So who is adding to phosphates in water?

 

[journey11]

Sure would hate to spoil a good rant.

My point was that you can't lump them all together in the same category. They all break down and react differently and some don't break down at all. You can go overboard with just about anything, but it would take a lot of ACV to ruin the water or soil. I have heard it both ways, but some say it is not even that effective as a weed-killer.

For your consideration. Farmer puts on top 3" of soil the amount of phosphates that he removed from the previous crop to get the soil built back to where it started. Standard is 60#\acre.

That would be good otherwise, except that most of it runs off with the rain due to soil erosion. ETA: I'm sure some have better luck/timing/skill in applying it than others, but bare soil will give up its nutrients very easily.

 

[seedcorn]

Thanks for allowing rant.........

Phosphorus that farmers use is not very water soluble and therefore doesn't run off with rain water. Now phosphorus found in compost is very water soluble and because it is found at such high concentrations, it moves with ground water. Of course phosphorus that people put into solutions and add to water (soaps) is highly mobile and placed right into our water. But yes, farmers who use it conservatively are to blame not those that pipe into septics or sewage. Or those that apply compost and don't check their phosphorus levels....

On re-consideration, the farmer's wives pollute more than the farmers because they wash the farmer's dirty clothes and make him take a soapy shower.....

 

[ducks4you]

Reason for post was:

Chance to rant-accomplished.
Make people think-accomplished.

Great Day!

seedcorn you are a STITCH!!!! ROFL!!